No. 7.

Interview with H. P. Baldwin, Maui, April 26, 1893. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Please give me your name and residence. Answer. H. P. 
Baldwin. I live really on Maui, where I am interested in two 
plantations, and also one in Makaweli. Q. Suppose you were cut off 
from the power to make contracts to bring labor into this country; 
what would be the effect on your plantation? A. Some of the planters 
consider it absolutely essential for us to have contracts, but I think 
that in order to bring about annexation most of them would be ready 
to yield that point. Q. How would they get labor?
A. That is one of the most difficult questions to the planters here. The 
people have the same prejudice against the Chinese that you have in 
the United States. We imported a large number of Portuguese and a 
great many have left. I think if we were allowed Japanese and 
Portuguese we might get along. We got Norwegians here. They stood 
it fairly well for awhile, but they got ill working in our hot cane 
fields. The Portuguese have been very good labor for us. Q. With the 
property qualification, such as now obtains, and add thereto a 
qualification requiring that the voter shall read and write, what sort 
of a local government would you have here? Could you have a 
satisfactory government? A. I do not think we would have a 
satisfactory government- as I said in my letter to you. I am 
convinced that it would be a very difficult thing to form a local 
government to stand. Q. Suppose you were admitted as a State into 
the Union, what sort of government would you expect? A. I think a 
State government would be undesirable for us. Q. Well, what would 
you think, in the event of annexation, the form of government would 
be? A. My choice would be for a Territorial government. I mean the 
governor and secretary of state to be appointed by the Federal 
Government, the legislature elected by the electors with a limited 
franchise. Q. Giving the controlling vote to the intelligent classed? A. 
As far as possible.

I have read the forgoing and pronounce it a correct report of my 
interview with Mr. Blount. 
H. P. Baldwin.
Honolulu, H. I., June 13, 1893.
684

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS	685

No. 8

Interview with C. R. Bishop, of Honolulu, April 27, 1893 

Mr. Blount. How long have you lived in these islands? Mr. Bishop. 
Since October 12, 1846.
Q. You have spent your life here since then? A. Mostly. A year and 
four months is the longest time I have been away. I was here twenty 
years before I went away at all. I was married in 1850. Q. To whom?
A. Bernice Pauahi. She was a high chief's daughter. Her mother was a 
descendant of Kamehameha I. Q. You have large landed interests 
here? A. I owned considerable land at times. I had control of large 
land interests. Q. And your wife had large interests?
A. Yes; you might call it large interests. Quite large interests by 
inheritance not very long before she died. Q. You have had occasion 
then to give more than ordinary attention to lands in the kingdom? 
A. Yes; I think so. I was intimately associated with Judge Lee, who 
was president of the land commission. We came here together. We 
roomed together. Q. You spoke of the land commission; for what 
purpose was it created? A. It was created for the purpose of giving 
title to all the people who had claims to the land-the chiefs and the 
people. Q. On what principle did they act in giving title? A. The King 
and chiefs made this division in 1847. It was then agreed that the 
people should have the small holdings which they had occupied and 
cultivated since 1839. That was conceded by the King and chiefs on 
the advice of the foreigners in the Government and the friends of the 
natives outside. Q. Why do you say it was occupied since 1839? A. 
That date was fixed upon it was the year in which the first draft of 
the constitution defining the rights of the people was made at 
Lahaina. That is the reason why they took this date as a starting 
point. That was only the draft made as I understand it. The land 
commission was for the purpose of giving titles to the chiefs and to 
the people for the lands which belonged to the chiefs, and which 
came to the natives under this concession. Q. What was the principle 
upon which the lands were divided? A. The chiefs had been given 
lands by former kings-by Kamehameha I, especially. They could not 
sell or lease them without the consent of the King and the premier. 
There were other lands supposed to be the King's private lands. 
When the division was made these lands which he claimed were his 
own were set apart and called crown lands. That was his private 
estate really and the others belonged to the chiefs and the people-
the Government, the chiefs and the people. The people got their's out 
of the Government land and out of the King's land and out of the 
chief's land. These Kuleanas-it did not matter whether in the King's 
land, the chiefs' land or the Government land-they got them all the 
same by putting in a claim and having them surveyed. There were 
days set for them to come prove claims. The 

686	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
land commission took down evidence and made awards according to 
evidence.
Q. What do you designate lands which belonged to the King as his 
private estate? A. They were called crown lands.
Q. Well, Government lands were intended to support the King in his 
administration of public affairs? A. No; he was expected to support 
himself mostly out of crown land. The appropriations made for the 
King were comparatively small. The expensed of Government would 
be paid out of sales of land, rents, taxes, and duties. The Kings down 
to 1864 had the right and did sell more or less of these lands. They 
were really their private property. Q. Well, in this division you speak 
of made by this land commission, the lands went to what class of 
persons? A. They confirmed only the rights of the people to whom 
mostly the lands belonged. The crown lands was a large amount; the 
Government got a large share, and the largest part of the remainder 
belonged to the chiefs. Q. You make a distinction between 
Government lands and crown lands? A. The crown lands belonged to 
the sovereign. The Government lands belonged to the Government 
for the support of the Government. Q. Were the Government lands 
leased out? A. Yes, they were leased and they were sold. You might 
say they are nearly sold out. The Government appointed land agents 
in nearly every district of the islands, with authority to sell small 
pieces of land to the natives. It was intended to give land to the 
natives who were not entitled to lands under the law giving them 
lands occupied since 1839. It was intended to give them an 
opportunity to purchase lands. They cut up a large number of the 
large lands into small holdings, and sold them to natives at a very 
low prices. A large part of them were sold at a half dollar an acre. Q. 
Where one had already a holding did they sell to him too? A. Yes; I 
think so. I do not think it was confined strictly to those who did not 
own lands. Q. Now, you spoke of the small holdings of land occupied 
by the natives from 1839 onwards being confirmed by this 
commission. Did the native occupiers of these Kuleanas generally 
take steps to have their lands set apart, or did many of them lose 
their lands by failure to comply with the mode of asserting and 
fixing their titles? A. Most of them put in their claims, and had the 
lands surveyed and got their awards. Q. You said a moment ago that 
the government sold land to natives at low prices on account of the 
fact that they had not gotten the lands assigned to them under the 
distribution authorized in 1839? A. No; not lands assigned to them, 
because in most cases they had not shown any right to take lands. Q. 
You mean to say that they were not occupiers of land? A. They had 
not been occupiers and cultivators- that is, all the time since 1839, if 
at all. Q. Then the natives, under that arrangement, who had not been 
occupiers of land were homeless? A. Let me say this: Before this 
division and before this concession to the natives, allowing them to 
put in claims which give them the title to land, they had certain 
understood rights in the places where they lived, for which they 
were to do a certain amount of work 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	687
for the chief, and so long as they did that they had the right to stay 
where they were, and that has always been recognized. It is even 
now. There were three days a month of labor. He had no land that he 
could dispose of.
Q. Was not that true as to all the common class of natives? A. Yes, 
that was the title they all had. There would be a family-a number 
living together. The head of the family would put in a claim for the 
land which he had occupied and cultivated. Then he had grown-up 
sons who would want land, and this sale of land to natives gave them 
an opportunity to become land owners- and gave an opportunity to 
those who had not been constant occupiers and cultivators of land to 
buy land for themselves. Q. Up till that time they had no land?
A. They had no land.
Q. Can you give me some idea of what proportion of the people were 
not occupiers of land at the time of this sale of lands-1839? A. That 
would be difficult; I don't know that I can. Q. I do not expect a 
definite, mathematical answer. A. But I can not do it. The natives 
never would have put in these claims and followed them up, if they 
had not been advised and urged to it mainly by American 
missionaries and other friends. They were slow in sending in there 
claims and time was extended more that once to give them 
opportunity to make their claims. I should say that a very large 
proportion of the heads of families got land either by putting in their 
claims, or by purchasing small holdings. Q. Please let me invite your 
attention to this question. You have alluded to a class of persons who 
were occupiers of land and those who were not occupiers of land. 
What was the mode of life of the persons who were not occupiers of 
land? Were they migratory? A. More or less so. A good many of them 
were a sort of servants- attachés of some chief, and there were a 
considerable number of them sailors. Some were mechanics and 
fishermen. Some were educated and employed as teachers. Q. What 
percent would you say were not located on lands? A. There were a 
good many people who lived about with one another. The natives 
were very free with each other's calabashes. A good many lived 
together- one man having the land and the others living with him. 
They were exceedingly liberal with each other. One man had plenty 
of food and the other hadn't any. The man who had any shared with 
the man who had none. It was as with the Indians- so long as there 
was food in the camp they all had some. There was a class who spent 
a large part of their time in fishing, and I do not think that these 
were cultivators of land, not many of them. The people in the early 
times before my time became cultivators and fishermen. Those who 
were fishermen did not do much cultivating. Q. What was the theory 
upon which these lands were divided between the King, chiefs, and 
people- in what proportion? A. I do not know as to proportion.
Q. About what amount of land was there in a kuleana? A. All the way 
from half an acre to ten acres. Some of them perhaps more than ten 
acres. Q. What would you say the average was?
A. I should say the average would be between two and three acres. 
Q. Was this division in which the native got his first title brought 

688	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
about through the influence of the missionaries with the Crown or 
Government?
A. Largely by the missionaries and by other foreigners in the 
Government or out of the Government. It was a foreign idea. They 
were given in addition half an acre on which to build a house. They 
could not build on taro land. They had an addition to the land which 
they cultivated the right to go to the mountains for timber for house 
and fence building and for the ti leaf and for thatch grass. The ti leaf 
is used in cooking and in packing food and carrying it. They also had 
the right to fish in the sea belonging to the land of the chief, within 
limits and to certain kinds of fish. Q. You mean that they got this 
under this 1839 settlement? A. Yes; they had all that defined in the 
law. Q. He lived principally upon his taro patch and fish? A. Yes, 
principally; but in some districts they had some lands on which they 
cultivated sweet potatoes and bananas. Taro, fish, and sweet potatoes 
were the principal thing. They raised hogs. Q. What was their clothing 
made of?
A. The clothing was formerly made of tapa. At the time I speak of, 
1839, they used mostly foreign material- cotton and woolen goods. Q. 
Were they generally clothed, or were most of them in a 
comparatively nude state? A. In towns they were pretty generally 
clothed. In the country, except on Sunday, they were partially 
clothed. They wore very little clothing. You would see a well-
educated native in the morning with his malo (a strip of tapa cloth 
worn around the loins). After he had gotten through with his work 
he would wash himself and put on something of clothing. If he was a 
teacher he went to his school completely clothed, but very likely 
barefooted- most likely barefooted. The clothing in the country was a 
good deal a matter of ornamental and show. On Sunday they dressed 
up and went to church and came home and threw off their clothing. 
Q. Do the natives own much land?
A. There are a good many natives who do. Q. I do not refer to the 
descendants of chiefs- I mean the common people. A. There are a 
large number of the common people who own lands. Q. What percent 
of them would you say?
A. That is very difficult to say. These small holdings that were 
acquired at the time I speak of were too small to be divided- 
generally were not divided. The young men who have come on since 
that time do not own land. Many of them have not tried to get any 
land. These small holdings have descended to heirs, and in many 
cases are still in possession of the heirs of the original holders. Q. You 
do not know the percentage of the land owned by the natives? A. I 
do not. The tax collector or assessor could give you a pretty good 
estimate by taking a little time. Q. These lands were divided 
originally so that the Crown got a portion, the chiefs a portion, and 
the common people a portion. A. Yes.
Q. These great sugar-planters- from whom do they derive their 
tittle? Who were the original patentees of these lands? A. Mostly the 
Government and the chiefs; and those chiefs are nearly all of them 
dead. Scarcely one of them from whom these lands have come is 
living. 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	689

Q. Do you mean that they have died without making a will or leaving 
heirs? A. In very few instances have they any heirs remaining. Some 
of them made wills and some didn't. The high chiefs who received 
these titles and their heirs are mostly dead. Q. And the lands 
themselves have gone where? A. Many of them were sold by those 
chiefs themselves. Q. To whom?
A. To different foreigners; to graziers. Some natives bought land. Q. 
Much?
A. Not very much.
Q. The bulk of them were sold or given to foreigners? A. They were 
not given; they were sold, to a large extent. Q. I saw some statements 
in some of your publications that the chiefs generously gave away 
large areas to foreigners. A. I do not remember any such case. 
Kamehameha I gave land to Young and Davis and to other chiefs. He 
gave them lands, but I do not think Kamehameha III or other Kings 
or the chiefs ever gave very much land to foreigners. The chiefs were 
an extravagant people. They had very little idea of economy, and 
lands to them had but little value. Large tracts of land had but small 
value. They were not used for anything. They were covered, many of 
them with grass or ferns, or shrubbery of some sort, and the first use 
to which these large tracts of land were put was for grazing. The 
horses increased rapidly; the cattle increased, and a good many lands 
were occupied for grazing. The chiefs from the first were careless 
about property. They had no idea about saving. They got into very 
extravagant habits during the sale of the sandalwood. There was a 
large sandalwood trade from 1810 to 1825. Traders came here and 
tempted them with all sorts of handsome goods- sold them vessels 
and sold them goods. The kings and chiefs got very much into debt, 
and them had to pay. The only thing they could pay with was 
sandalwood. I believe the trade here one year amounted to 
something like $400,000 in sandalwood. They bought broadcloths 
and satins and vessels and all manner of things- and a good deal of 
liquor. They got into extravagant habits. They kept on with that kind 
of habit. They kept getting into debt, and when they got the tittles to 
the land so that they could dispose of them many paid their debts by 
selling land. They would sell large tracts of land without surveying- 
sell them by name. The chiefs took tittles to their lands by name. The 
land commission awarded them by name. The chiefs themselves, 
during their lifetimes got rid of a great deal of land. Some of them 
left, when they died, debts to be paid. I had the settling of my wife's 
father's estate. He did not own as much land as many of the chiefs. 
He built a house where the Boston's sailors have been staying on King 
street. He built many houses for his people. He was a popular chief 
and very kind to his people, who were attached to him. He supported 
a company of soldiers. He had quite a large company- perhaps fifty 
to one hundred men. So in building and in fine clothing, horses, 
furniture, etc., they got into debt. I had to sell off in settling his 
estate a quantity of land- fish ponds, and so forth, to get the estate 
clear. The plantation lands have come nearly altogether from the 
Government and the chiefs, and considerable of the land is leases. Q. 
Who owns what is called the Bishop estate lands? F R 94- APP- 44

690	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

A. It is in the hands of five trustees for the purpose of establishing 
and maintaining two schools; one for boys and the other for girls. Q. 
How many acres are there in these lands? A. About 430,000 acres, a 
good deal of which is of no value. Q. What is the income derived from 
them? A. About $50,000.
Q. They were lands left by your wife?
A. Yes.
Q. You have been out of the country for some time? A. Yes; six 
months.
Q. You were not here during the period of the revolution? A. No.
Q. What is the feeling of the massed of the people toward the 
Provisional Government and annexation- those two ideas seem to run 
together- or have you been here enough to be able to answer? A. Do 
you mean natives or people generally? Q. You can answer it as to 
people generally. A. Well, I should think that a large majority of the 
natives would be against annexation if left to them. Of course the 
Chinese and Japanese don't think much about it one way or the other. 
The Portuguese seem to be in favor of it. As near as I can get at it a 
large proportion of Americans, a considerable number of Germans, 
and some English are in favor of it. Q. If it was left to the people to 
pass on under your Australian- ballot system, with the present 
qualification of a voter for the house of representatives, that would 
likely be the be the result? A. They would vote against annexation, I 
think. They would vote against annexation unless they could see 
some immediate personal advantage in some way. I do not think 
they would consider very what the advantage or the disadvantage 
would be to them. It is a sentiment against any change. Q. Is there 
anything of a race feeling in it; that they would rather the 
Government be under native princes? A. Yes, I think so. Their 
preference would be to be ruled by their own people even if 
everything went to the bad. Things might go to the dogs, they would 
adhere to that. Q. Well, your political contests which you have had 
since 1886- have they been largely on the lines of a struggle for 
power between the native and the white races? A. That has been 
growing. For a long time back there has been something of that 
disposition on the increase. That feeling has been growing. It has 
been used more or less through native newspapers and in the 
elections. Q. Prior to the constitution of 1887 the Crown appointed 
nobles? A. Yes.
Q. Then it was quite easy, with the native vote outnumbering the 
white, for the Crown and native people to control the legislative 
body, was it not? A. Yes; if they had so determined.
Q. Well, in 1886 was not the legislature in control of the crown and 
native people? A. I do not remember how they stood. We have 
always had a considerable number of foreigners as nobles, and a 
number always have been elected to the house of representatives. 
Some years the number of foreigners has been pretty large, and 
them again not so large. Kalakaua 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	691
kaua was inclined more to appoint natives. I was made a noble in 
1860. I sat in the house when there were two houses for several 
sessions.
Q. Well, the complaint in the revolution of 1887- one of the 
complaints- was against his exercise of that power of appointing 
nobles, was it not? A. I do not remember.
Q. The constitution of 1887 took it away? A. Yes. That is, the power 
he got partly through the appointment of nobles. They felt he was 
abusing the power which he had. They complained of him for 
interfering in the elections and for getting people who he thought 
would favor any schemes of his, and also in interfering in the 
appointment of all the minor officers- like tax assessors, tax 
collectors, and district justices- getting everything as much as 
possible into his own hands, and of his extravagance. Through such a 
legislature he could get appropriations made to suit him.


Q. The revolution of 1887 was to change that? A. Yes; it was to 
change that. Now, a man can not be elected who is holding any office 
at all. Giving men minor offices was one way of paying them. Q. Has 
there been discontent with the constitution of 1887 on the part of 
the crown and native population more or less since then? A. Yes; but 
I do not think the people generally were discontented if they had 
been let alone. The Crown was discontented all the time from the 
time of the revolution. It wanted to get power back again. 

The shorthand noted of the foregoing have been read to me by Mr. 
Mills, and it is a correct report of my interview with Mr. Blount. 
CHAS. R. BISHOP.

(Mr. Bishop was on the point of leaving Honolulu for the United 
States.) 
_________________________
No. 9.

Interview with Sereno E. Bishop, Honolulu, Tuesday, April 11. 

Mr. Blount. Mr. Bishop, will you be kind enough to tell me- because I 
know you are a thoughtful man- the causes immediate and remote 
which led to the recent revolution? Mr. Bishop. The immediate cause 
was a succession of aggressions upon liberty and good government 
by the Queen, and the final act of attempting to overthrow the 
existing constitution by violence. Q. Will you be kind enough to refer 
to these acts specifically? A. The first definite act was the refusal of 
the Queen to appoint a cabinet in accordance with the choice of the 
legislature. Q. What day was that?
A. I can not give you the precise date. There was a series of these 
proceedings from, I think, August to November, during which time 
the legislature rejected, successively, three Cabinets which she had 
appointed by vote of want of confidence, she persisting in sending in 
again and again men that the legislature considered unfit for the 
office. Q. You mean by that the individual members of a cabinet were 
repeatedly rechosen and rejected? A. In some cases the same 
individuals were rechosen, but generally not more than one at a 
time. Other men equally objectionable were substituted in their 
places. They were men in whom the business 

692	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
community had no confidence. The next act of distinct importance 
was the manifest collusion of the Queen with the lottery ring. It 
finally appeared that the passage of the lottery bill was a definite 
part of her policy to render herself independent of the business 
people by means of a subsidy of a $500,000, which that lottery paid 
to the government.
Q. How would that render her independent? A. I would furnish a 
means of revenue of such an amount that she hoped to be able to 
dispense with the support of the banks. Q. Get along without taxation 
of other property? A. No; not get along without taxation, but to get 
along without the support of the business men, which was necessary 
to supply money in case of stringency, which has often arisen here. Q. 
Well, please proceed on that line.
A. The matter culminated during the absence of the American 
Minister and the ship-of-war Boston by the passage of the lottery 
bill, driven through the House in the absence of several of the best 
members, and especially by the removal of the excellent Cabinet, in 
which all had great confidence, and which had restored financial 
confidence in the government and business prosperity. They were 
removed by a vote of confidence, the vote of the same men who 
passed the lottery bill. The Queen proceeded immediately to appoint 
another cabinet composed of the worst elements of previous cabinets 
which had been successively rejected by the House. Q. Can I interrupt 
you here? Who were the cabinet members of that objectionable 
cabinet? A. They were four men- Parker, Colburn, Cornwell, and 
Peterson; every one of which men, I am compelled to say this- Q. I 
want to know the truth.
A. Not one of these men possessed any confidence of the public. They 
were men of notorious character in some respects, especially as to 
their business reliability. Not one of them could by any means at his 
command have raised $10,000 for his own use, owing to his personal 
deterioration of character and failure in business. That was the 
general character of them. Q. Were they truthful men in their 
ordinary relations? A. I should speak differently about different 
ones. I should say that Mr. Parker might be regarded, for anything I 
know, as an honorable man in his ordinary relations, but a prodigal 
man. Mr. Colburn, the minister of the interior, was notably a falsifier 
in business matters, so that he would not be trusted in any business 
matter. Q. What do you mean by falsifier?
A. He would give false weights and measures. Q. What was his 
business?
A. He was a feed dealer. The next man was Cornwell, minister of 
finance; I should say that he was a wreck financially and morally in 
every way. As to his character for truthfulness, I do not know. Q. 
What do you mean by a wreck morally?
A. I mean that he was so far degraded in his personal character as to 
licentiousness and gambling that he had lost the ordinary shame 
which men possess. I am sorry to speak in that way, but you wish to 
be answered truthfully. Q. I do. I want to see the situation. I don't 
care what it is. I want to see it. A. He was in possession of large 
property which he has wasted. He has to my knowledge- not to my 
personal observation, but to my 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	693
knowledge- displayed himself in public matters in a very gross way 
personally- particularly in connection with Hula dances.
Q. You mean going to see Hula dances?
A. No; but in cheering and publicly commending the vilest portions of 
it before the people present. Licentiousness is a common practice in a 
country where most of the women are weak, but he carried it to an 
excess of grossness. He has run through his property, so that he has 
hardly anything left. Q. And the next man?
A. The fourth man, Peterson, is of very old family- a native of the 
island, I believe. He was one of out promising lads, but when he came 
back from the United States he fell into association with the lottery 
and opium rings, and he lost character and lost ground. Q. On that 
account?
A. On that account mainly. I do not know of any individual 
transactions of his. I never heard of any that indicated dishonesty, 
but he was associated with them in their proceedings and he was 
supposed to have dealings with them in opium smuggling. I do not 
know what the facts are about that. He was intimately associated 
with them, especially with Paul Neumann, who was the reputed chief 
of that company and had been for a long time. Paul Neumann was for 
many years the chief adviser of the King. He was a back stair 
adviser- a private counselor of King Kalakaua in all his arbitrary 
proceedings toward the establishment of arbitrary power. It is 
unpleasant for me to speak evil of men. I said before, the 
culminating act was one which took the public by surprise. It was the 
drawing up of the household troops in line in front of the palace, 
which I personally witnessed, and the attempt to promulgate an 
entirely new constitution by arbitrary means. Q. What do you mean 
by attempt to promulgate a constitution by unlawful means? A. I 
mean that she presented such a constitution to her ministers and 
they demurred. She used violent language toward them. They fled, 
and after several hours of contest with them she finally yielded so 
far as to give announcement to the natives that she would not 
promulgate it -to her intense regret. She added it was her intention 
to promulgate that constitution in a short time. She gave the people 
hopes that she would do it. That act of the Queen put her in a 
position which practically wrecked her Government; that is, no 
further confidence or reliance could in any way be placed in her 
administration from that time on. It was felt by the whole intelligent 
community to have gone to pieces. There was absolute necessity for 
substituting some other government in its place. I became informed 
of an element in the Queen's proceedings which awakened an 
apprehension in my mind of some fanatical excitement. I heard that 
she was under the influence of Kahunas; that she had been for two 
weeks in consultation with Kahunas before her endeavor to submit 
the constitution, and that on that very day she was conducting 
sacrificial worship. Q. How did you get that?
A. I do not remember how the information came to me now. There 
was a good deal of excitement about the idolatrous doings in the 
palace. I was going on to say that my alarm was excited, that I 
handed in a note to Mr. Stevens on Sunday expressing my sense of 
the probable need of protection from the American forces for fear of 
some kind of a fanatical uprising among the natives. I never heard 
from Mr. Stevens on the subject. I do not know what he thought of it 
or what influence it had upon him. I was only speaking of my own 
apprehensions, I 

694	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
would say that it had been the custom on previous occasions to have 
the American forces landed for protection and public safety. On two 
previous instances, in 1887 and 1889, American forces were landed 
by the American Minister.
There was a determined resistance of every effort to remove the 
marshal (who has the reputation of being her present favorite), 
Marshal Wilson, and this opposition was led more by John E. Bush 
than any other person in the legislature. A majority of the legislature 
was insisting upon it. It was one of their grounds for voting out 
ministers- because she would not agree to remove Wilson. Q. What 
was their objection to Wilson?
A. It was not so much that he was her personal favorite, but that he 
was obnoxious to them, especially to Wilcox. He had been active in 
the arrest of Wilcox for conspiracy. I do not know whether the 
grounds of opposition were sound or not. I know Mr. Thurston was 
not very ardent in the matter of having him removed. It was John E. 
Bush and Wilcox. John E. Bush was in the habit of calling her all kinds 
of foul names. Q. What is your opinion of the credibility of Bush? A. 
He has no character for veracity or morality of any kind. It is as bad 
as it can be. I have known his record for a long period. He has about 
as bad a record as anybody in these islands in every respect. I will 
say about Bush that his earlier progress in public life was owing to 
the fact that his wife was at the King's service entirely. That was the 
secret of his success. It was a notorious fact. Q. What country was she 
from?
A. She was a native.
Q. Dead?
A. Yes. When she died his influence with the King somewhat 
declined. In reference to this matter of the marshal it should be 
added that the Queen declared publicly to a committee sent to as her 
to keep Wilson in office that he should be kept in office. It was an 
unconstitutional declaration. I give this as one of her unconstitutional 
acts. Q. The Provisional Government was established on the 17th? A. 
The 17th.
Q. Three days, then, afterwards it was the avowed purpose to seek 
annexation with the United States? A. Yes; that is a matter of record.
Q. Out of what did that declaration in favor of annexation come? Did 
it come out of the moment, or had there been a progress of opinion 
for years on the line of connecting this country with the Government 
of the United States? A. There had been a progress of opinion 
growing for a good many years in favor of annexation to the United 
States, and looking to it as a certain event of the future. I would say 
that the royalist paper "Bulletin" distinctly avowed that as a 
certainty in a year- either last year or the year before. Q. Now, was 
there a feeling in the mind of the people in that meeting reaching 
back through a period of months, looking forward to some 
opportunity of connection with the Government of the United States? 
A. There was nothing said about annexation in that meeting. Q. I do 
not know that I gave you my idea. A. As to what feeling existed 
among individuals or among leaders in that meeting- I suppose that 
is what you wish to know- it would be a matter of opinion with me. I 
should say that at that meeting there was no definite thought about 
annexation among the people; that 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS	695
was an afterthought which grew up perhaps during the next day- 
that is, of actually proposing annexation as an immediate thing. I 
know that it was not in my own mind. I was not thinking about that. 
I was thinking about what kind of government would be put up. It 
was quite evident there was going to be a change. Annexation might 
or might not come. People had to act and think rapidly. We had had 
some training in the revolution of 1887. That had been an education 
to our leading men.
Q. What do you mean by education? In what particular? A. An 
education in planning for a form of government. An education in 
prompt action of the right kind. Q. What do you mean by prompt 
action of the right kind? A. I mean such action as was actually taken. 
Experience had taught the people that no confidence was to be placed 
in any royal promise; that there was only one thing to be done- to 
make clean work and sweep the monarchy away. The people here 
had a very distinct education in what may be termed the strategy of 
a revolution. Q. Do you mean that the white element here had 
learned what they could accomplish by courage and organization? A. 
Yes; exactly. I would add to that also that the native population got 
an education in the impossibility of resistance to a determined action 
on the part of the whites. Q. Now, Mr. Bishop, was this change of 
Government brought about by any action from the other islands- or 
was it done entirely on this island? A. Entirely. There was no time to 
communicate with the other islands. The white population of the 
other islands were as thoroughly in sympathy as the white 
population of Honolulu. Q. Did they have any knowledge of it?
A. None.
Q. Did the native population on the other islands know anything of 
the movement? A. I think they knew of the movement to proclaim a 
new constitution. Q. That is not what I mean-
A. Well, they could not. The whole thing was done so rapidly. There 
was no vessel going up to the other islands during those days. I think 
no vessel went up during that period. Q. In the education you say the 
whites received here and the natives received in connection with 
revolutions, was there in the minds of the whites to enable them to 
succeed, and in the minds of the natives to induce them to submit, 
any calculation as to the aid of the forces of any foreign government? 
A. I should say there was none whatever. I was myself fairly 
intimate with the public sentiment in that matter, and I am certain 
that there was no calculation of any such aid. There was a calculation 
on the maintenance of the usual practice of landing troops to 
maintain order against mob violence, and to protect the property of 
citizens. There was an expectation of that. Q. How was that force to be 
applied? The Queen's Government was in existence up to the time of 
your recognition? A. It may be said to have had no manner of 
existence. It had no real existence. It was wrecked by the panic 
produced by the unconstitutional acts of the Queen. All persons had 
ceased to look to it; at least, all owners of property and intelligent 
people. Q. Then you did not expect the use of troops to enforce or 
sustain any action on the part of the Queen? 

696	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

A. We did not expect they would. We did not regard the Queen's 
Government as a source of order. The attitude of the Queen herself, 
as shown on the morning of that Monday, the 16th, in this terrified 
proclamation, showed that they themselves were in a state of panic. 
Q. The people then did not expect that in the use of foreign troops 
that the Queen's Government would derive any support from that 
quarter. A. No; they did not. Mr. Stevens' sympathies were well 
known by various manifestations. They were known to be in favor of 
the progress of the constitutional government. He had so declared 
himself on public occasions like 4th of July. Q. What do you mean by 
that. Please be more specific. A. I mean that on at least two public 
occasions- one of which was the 4th of July- Mr. Stevens had made 
addresses in which he spoke of the necessity of the Hawaiian 
monarchy conforming itself to constitutional progress. Q. How did 
that apply to any condition of things here? A. It applied because 
Kalakaua's Government and the Queen's Government were manifestly 
seeking to establish absolutism. Q. And the condition of things here 
induced the interpretation of these two speeches to mean that- A. He 
was heartily in sympathy with the movement of constitutional 
government. He was going to show himself as a good American. It 
was kindness in him to exercise his influence as the American 
representative. Q. You did not think the forces were going to be used 
when they came on shore in the interest of protecting the property 
and persons of American citizens in connection with the Queen's 
government, or in support of it. A. I was well satisfied they would 
not be used to support that government. Q. Did you think that the 
new government was likely to be recognized and that in the 
protection of person and property the troops would likely act on a 
line in harmony with the new government? A. I did not suppose- I 
had some indications that led me to believe that the troops would not 
be used in any way to assist in establishing the Provisional 
Government. They would be left entirely to their prowess or strength 
to accomplish the end. Q. Were the troops landed before that 
government was recognized? A. They landed before the government 
was formed. They were landed on the evening of the 16th. The 
government was not formed until the morning of the 17th. Q. Now, 
suppose disorders had broken out in that condition of things- in 
executing the power- the purpose of protecting persons and property 
here- what was expected as to the tendency of the action of these 
troops- that it would be with the white population or with the native 
element- with the new political movement or with the Queen's 
Government? A. Well, it was expected that they would repress any 
mob violence whatever- that they would assist in preventing any 
incendiarism in town, or attacks upon private property. Q. Suppose 
there had been a conflict on the streets- a battle on the streets- what 
side do you suppose the United States would have taken? A. My 
belief was at that time that the United States would have remained 
entirely neutral. I have no doubt of that. I had no doubt then. 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	697

Q. Did you look for any trouble at the time these troops were put on 
shore? A. We were apprehensive at that time of secret disturbance- 
attempts to create insurrection and disturbances. We were 
apprehensive about incendiarism. Q. Insurrection against what?
A. Attempt on the part of the natives to injure whites. Q. You mean 
race conflict rather than insurrection? A. Well, I do not mean any 
organized insurrection- we were afraid of local disturbances in town. 
We were in a state of uncertainty and apprehension. We felt we 
needed protection. We had not organized Government forces. Q. You 
wanted these forces here to preserve order until you had organized? 
A. And after that if they chose. We were accustomed to have such 
forces landed- Mr. Merrill had had such forces. Q. I am not 
questioning the propriety of it, but I am trying to find out the public 
mind in this situation. A. I understand. Now I am expressing what 
my own view is as an intelligent person, knowing what customs and 
proprieties of things would be internationally. I am only giving you 
my opinion. Q. I am only asking your opinion. I am inquiring from 
you because you have the reputation of being an intelligent man of 
character. These troops were landed at the instance of whom? A. I 
understand that they were landed at the request of the committee of 
public safety- organized before the Provisional Government was 
organized. It was felt that the community was in great danger, and it 
was necessary to take immediate steps. Q. The protectorate was 
established to continue during the progress of negotiations, was it 
not? A. So far as it was a protectorate. I do not know how far it was 
entitled to be called a protectorate. I think the proclamation of Mr. 
Stevens settles that matter. I do not know anything outside of that. I 
think it was pending orders from the United States Government. Q. 
Was there a fear here that were the troops aboard, the government 
would not be able to protect property- the Provisional Government? 
A. The troops had been on shore all the time to assist in maintaining 
order. They took no active part then and were always confined to 
their barracks. Q. Do you think that during all that period and up to 
the establishment of the protectorate that these troops were 
necessary on shore in order that order might be preserved? A. Well, 
it is hard to say. I cannot judge. I will say this: I know from my 
personal knowledge of volunteers of the force that they considered 
themselves very hard worked in controlling the town, and while they 
encountered hardly any signs or disposition to make disturbance 
they had a sense of insecurity. They were called off from their 
business to a degree that was a great trial to them, and the putting 
up of the American flag enabled martial law to be dispensed with 
and gave a feeling of general confidence and security which was 
agreeable to us all. Q. Martial law and the United States troops you 
felt necessary to give adequate protection and restore confidence 
here. Is that true or not? A. I should not say that the presence of the 
United States troops 

698	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS


was a necessity. It was very desirable. I think that the Provisional 
Government could have maintained our security without them.
Q. Mr. Bishop, there has been a controversy (if I an not correct you 
can correct me) for a good many years on the part of the people of 
the white race here and the native race in the matter of governing 
the country. Is that true or not? A. It is true.
Q. Have the political alignments here been as a general rule racial- 
white race against other races? A. Not until recently.
Q. How recently?
A. My first recollections of any indications of such an alignment I 
should say were early in the reign of Kalakaua, about eighteen or 
twenty years ago. Q. And did it take shape in the form of questions of 
taxation, or what form did it take? A. In the shape of appointments 
to public office. They claimed that natives should hold a larger 
proportion of public office than they had been accustomed to. Q. And 
the other side did not like it?
A. The other side did not feel that the natives were fit for office. 
They were notoriously incompetent. The first indication I remember 
of such a feeling was one day seeing Samuel Parker- then a young 
man- landing at Lahaina from a vessel from Honolulu and 
proclaiming loudly that Kalakaua was going to do the right thing by 
the Hawaiians - give them a proper share in the Government. Q. 
What had been the share before this announcement of Parker? A. It 
had been customary to have one or two natives of half whites in the 
King's cabinet of four. Q. How about the court?
A. The supreme court?
Q. Yes.
A. It has always been customary to have three white judges. Q. 
Because they were learned in the law? A. Yes; the natives were 
incapable of being learned in law. Q. That had for some time been 
accepted as proper? A. It has ever since it has been the rule. It has 
never been changed. Q. How are your judges selected?
A. Appointed by the Sovereign with the advise of the cabinet. There 
has been a very satisfactory administration of law and justice. Q. How 
about you foreign ministers- any rule obtained? A. They were 
always white men.
Q. And appointed by the Crown?
A. Yes.
Q. On confirmation by anybody else?
A. The cabinet, I think.
Q. Not confirmed by the legislative body? A. No; a large part of the 
offices sought to be occupied by natives were subordinate civil 
offices. Q. Was that what Parker had in mind, or did he want to 
enlarge it? A. He wanted to enlarge it, to have more natives in the 
cabinet. Q. In the constitution of 1887 did the qualifications of 
electors leave the whites in the majority in the election of nobles, or 
the natives? A. The whites in the majority; that is, a majority of 
nobles. Q. The constitution allowed citizens of other countries who 
were liv- 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	699
ing here at that time to vote, not thereby forfeiting their citizenship 
in other countries. Was that intended to strengthen the white vote?
A. It was intended to strengthen the white vote by enabling them to 
vote, as they were not willing to renounce their citizenship. Q. With a 
view of giving the white element strength in political controversies? 
A. Yes; to give them adequate representation in the legislature, so 
that they should not be entirely overridden by the native 
representatives. Q. This constitution was extorted from Kalakaua by a 
mass meeting? A. Yes; by force of public sentiment manifested 
through a mass meeting. That demonstration of the determination 
and unity of the white citizens so terrified him that he was ready to 
do what he was wanted to do. Q. Now, is it to be inferred from 
transactions like that the intelligent people here are of the opinion 
that the native population as a mass are qualified for government, 
capable of carrying on a government? A. I should say quite the 
contrary.
Q. Referring to the mass meeting which extorted the constitution 
from Kalakaua and to the recent mass meeting which brought about 
the change here- are we to believe from these that the intelligent 
classes in this community- the whites- do not believe that the mass 
of the native population are capable of self government? A. Not 
without assistance.
Q. What is your view about that? I do not know these people at all. I 
am trying to get at the inside facts of the case. A. My view is that, 
while the native people here are lacking in adequate intelligence and 
force of purpose to conduct self-government long, they are so well 
disposed that with a sufficient power of white guidance- white 
coöperation- and the removal of racial contention, which has been 
sedulously cultivated by the late dynasty, they will usefully 
coöperate in republican government. They possess sufficient 
intelligence and good disposition so to do. Q. On that point of being 
led by the white element, and easily in the absence of attempts to 
excite racial feelings, could you trust to universal suffrage? A. 
Without limitations we could not.
Q. What limitations could you trust to in the matter of suffrage? A. I 
think the limitations would have to be quite high, as to education and 
property qualifications. Q. What would you put them at?
A. As to education, I should require a good knowledge of the English 
language- sufficient to enable the voter to read and understand the 
Constitution of the United States. Q. In regard to property 
qualifications? A. I think it should be made so high as to exclude 
unskilled laborers. Q. You have about 9,000 voters among the native 
population- how many would that exclude? A. The educational 
qualification would exclude two-thirds- the qualified would rapidly 
increase. Q. What property qualification?
A. The same property qualification as now required of voters for 
nobles- $600 income. That would exclude unskilled laborers. Q. How 
many skilled laborers do you think would vote? A. I do not know. 
There has been very great carelessness in admit- 

700	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS
ting such voters. I think the number of such voters having that 
property qualification would be about one-fifth.
Q. That is your opinion?
A. Yes; my private opinion.
Q. What would you think would be the opinion of the intelligent 
people here on this question? A. I think they would generally agree 
with it, except as they are governed by a strong American prejudice 
of universal suffrage. Q. A majority of the whites, would they adopt 
your opinion or the manhood suffrage idea? A. I think the great 
majority of the whites would adopt my idea as a matter of necessity, 
although contrary to their theoretical principles. They would sacrifice 
their theory for obvious necessity. Q. Mr. Bishop, what would be the 
effect on values here if you were to go into the United States- 
property values? A. I think there would be an appreciation of most 
property values within two years of at least 50 percent. Q. Why do 
you think that?
A. On account of the immediate restoration of financial confidence. It 
would put into operation at once a great variety of new enterprises, 
such as the proposed railroad around Oahu, which is now waiting for 
the result of the present negotiations. Q. Anything else?
A. Yes; there are other caused. The rapid immigration here of 
energetic whites from America, from the United States, which would 
follow annexation. Q. What would bring them?
A. The sense that they were going to be in the United States, that 
they were coming to their own country- the protection of the 
American flag. Q. They have that already there. I mean what would 
bring them here? A. Attractions of land. Opening to enterprise. They 
are deterred from doing so now by the political uncertainty of the 
country. Q. Any other causes?
A. I think those are the main causes.
Q. The sugar bounty- has it had any influence at all in the matter? A. 
In promoting annexation?
Q. Yes.
A. Ever since the bounty has been put on it has increased, I think, 
the desire for annexation, but at the same time there was an 
apprehension that the bounty would soon be removed, so that it was 
not a very powerful influence. Q. What would be the effect on your 
labor here? A. Very unfavorable to sugar-planters. It is apprehended 
it would be. I think it would be. I think the planters would suffer a 
good deal in reference to their contract labor. Q. Suppose they had no 
contract labor, could not they bring Japanese here Portuguese in 
sufficient quantities to supply plantations? A. Their passage would 
have to be paid by the planters. Q. You think they would not do that 
unless there was a contract? A. No; they would not get their money 
back unless they were bound. Q. That would seem so to me. I saw a 
statement from Mr. Paul Neumann, in which he took a different view, 
but did not give his reason for it. A. Paul Neumann would say 
anything that would suit the occasion. 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS .	701

Q. You think the contract labor system would be done away with if 
there was annexation? A. It is so understood.
Q. When these contracts are out do the laborers leave the country? A. 
Not necessarily.
Q. Some of them- the Chinese- would have to go back, would not 
they, under you last legislation? A. I am not familiar with the last 
legislation. My attention has been taken up with other political 
aspects. Q. Do you think the Chinese would remain here? A. They 
have remained here in very large numbers. There has been a very 
large decline in Chinese populations. Q. Would you expect the United 
States Government to permit the Chinese population to remain here 
in the event of annexation? A. Just as they permit the Chinese 
population to remain in the United States. I suppose on the same 
terms. Q. The Japanese population- would you expect them to remain 
mostly when their term of service was out? A. I believe the Japanese 
are under some obligation to their own Government in the matter, 
which may constrain them. Q. Do you think if that is not true they 
would like to remain- most of them? A. I think they would.
Q. Well, the Portuguese element- is that permanent here? A. I think 
it is- unless they are compelled to leave here for want of 
employment. Q. Now, taking your native population- the Portuguese 
population and the Japanese population that remain here- it would 
be overwhelming in point of numbers against the white element? A. 
The Portuguese we count as whites. They are whites. They are whites 
in intelligence when they receive education. Q. I do not care whether 
you call them whites or not. A. I am disposed to insist that they are 
whites. They have the European Christian ethics. They belong to 
Christian civilization by inheritance. Q. With the Japanese population 
living here, and the Portuguese population here, and the white 
population here, what would you do with the question of suffrage? 
Would you be inclined to the lines you have already indicated in that 
condition of things? A. Well, it would establish English as an absolute 
condition of suffrage. Q. And the property qualification?
A. Yes; but the English would exclude the ignorant Portuguese, and 
exclude the Japanese and Chinese almost entirely. Q. You mean the 
qualifications for reading English would exclude most of the 
Portuguese and most of the Japanese? A. Yes; it would exclude 
Portuguese who were not educated. I was going to say that it is my 
opinion that there should be an exception made from the educational 
qualification in reference to all persons who had hitherto for a 
considerable number of years- say fifteen. It would be an injustice to 
a large class of intelligent and excellent natives not to let them 
exercise suffrage. Q. You desired to express some views a while ago 
on some subject? A. On the question of the expectation of intelligent 
people here in respect to the action of the troops of the Boston. On 
the Sunday following the establishing of the Provisional Government 
Mr. P. C. 

702	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
Jones, the minister of finance, and myself held a conversation on the 
steps of the Stone church, where we were about to conduct Bible 
classes. Mr. Jones expressed himself confidentially to me about his 
feelings on the occasion of assuming office. He stated to me that he 
thought he had never had such a sense in his life of personal peril he 
felt at the time he and the other members of the Provisional 
Government left Fort street to proceed to the Government house for 
the purpose of seizing the Government. From that I am convinced 
that the members of the Provisional Government expected no 
assistance whatever from United States forces.
Q. What day was this?
A. It was the Sunday following the day they took the Government- 
was Tuesday, the 17th. It was the 22d of January. Q. The American 
flag was then up?
A. No; the American flag was not put up for two weeks afterwards. Q. 
Were the troops on shore all the while. A. Yes, they were on shore all 
the time. They were out of sight mostly on the premised which they 
occupied. My son-in-law, Jonathan Shaw, was active as volunteer 
from the moment of the assumption of power by the Provisional 
Government. He has always spoken to me of experiencing a great 
sense of danger at the time that he took up arms to assist the 
Provisional Government in occupying the government house. He had 
no expectation of support at that time from the United States troops. 
He is a bookkeeper and general business man of intelligence. I would 
urge the point that the proclamation made by the Queen and her 
cabinet on Monday morning, the 16th, demonstrated a condition of 
panic on the part of the Queen's Government. It was a most 
humiliating proclamation for her to make. It proves that the 
Government had practically gone to pieces- and this supports the 
theory that the reason why not the slightest opposition was offered 
by the large force assembled and armed on the Queen's side to the 
Provisional Government.. It was due entirely to a state of panic on 
the part of the natives. Q. The natives here in the city of Honolulu? A. 
The organized native forces. They could not possibly have been 
brought up to face the whites. This feeling was enhanced by actual 
experience they had had of being shot down by the whites in the 
insurrection of 1889, in which no white man was wounded. Twelve 
natives were shot down. Q. Was that the Wilcox insurrection?
A. Yes.
Q. Now let me ask you there, was that an insurrection against 
Kalakaua? A. It is hard to say what the inside intention of the 
revolution was, but my opinion is that Kalakaua was privy to it. It 
was purely an attempt to restore the old constitution in the interests 
of absolutism. Q. Where was he at that time; was he at the palace? A. 
No; he was not at the palace; he was at his house on the beach, and at 
an early hour he went on board the American ship-of-was, which 
was in port. Q. For what purpose?
A. For safety.
Q. From whom?
A. I do not know. His royal guard in the palace was instructed to 
keep Wilcox and his men out of the palace so as to save the palace 
from injury. Wilcox made no attempt to gain possession of the palace, 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	703
although he went to the barracks, in the rear of the palace, and 
obtained all the rifles and cannon he could use. They were freely 
given to him by the King's forces in the barracks.
Q. Now, did the whites suppress the insurrection? A. Yes; it was done 
entirely by the whites. It was done by authority of the Thurston 
cabinet. The King's own cabinet suppressed the insurrection as being 
an insurrection against the King. They understood it very well that 
the King was conniving at it. It was also stated that Liliuokalani 
aimed to destroy the King and put herself on the throne. Q. How 
much was that believed here among the white people? A. I think the 
general consensus of opinion was in favor of the former theory that 
the King was privy to the whole thing. Q. Now, you say that the 
shooting down of the natives on the part of the whites in the Wilcox 
insurrection was probably the cause of the panic in the royal troops 
in the late movement? A. I think it contributed to it. No native would 
face a combination of white volunteers. The men who shot down the 
natives were volunteers- not organized, but riflemen gathered for 
the moment. Q. Mr. Bishop, I notice in correspondence between the 
minister here and the State Department a letter in which he speaks 
of arms being landed here from San Francisco for the whites in 
connection with the movement of 1887? A. Yes; there was. That was 
an organized movement. q. What became of those arms? I do not 
want you to answer it unless you feel perfectly free about it . Were 
they retained by private citizens? A. My impression is that they 
were retained by private citizens. I think they were owned by 
private citizens. Q. Is it true or not that the white people here with a 
view to their own security keep themselves supplied with arms in 
their houses? I mean as a general rule? A. I think it is quite 
extensive, but I do not think it is universal. q. That would indicate a 
feeling on the part of the whites that it was necessary for them to be 
in a condition always to protect themselves by force, although they 
might never have ti to do? A. That is the feeling undoubtedly.
Q. I was led to ask you that question by a man named Lillie. He spoke 
of keeping arms in his house. A. I would say that apprehension is felt 
solely in regard to the adherents of royalty. There is no fear from 
other sources. I have carefully read the foregoing and pronounce it 
an accurate report of my interview with Mr. Blount. 
SERENO E. BISHOP.
Honolulu, May 12, 1893.
_____________________________________________________________
_________ 

No. 10.

Interview with William Blaisdell of Kealia and Kapaa Kauai, 
Wednesday, April 19, 1893. 

Mr. Blount. Mr. Blaisdell, please tell me your occupation? Mr. 
Blaisdell. I am a plantation manager. Q. What plantation?
A. The McKee Sugar Company.
Q. What is the amount of capital involved? 

704	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

A. About $1,000,000.
Q. How many hands employed?
A. Am average of 700.
Q. Where are they from- what race?
A. Principally Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese, Hawaiians, and a few 
South Sea Islanders. Q. How many Japanese?
A. About 400.
Q. About how many Chinese?
A. About 100.
Q. About how many Portuguese?
A. Something like 120.
Q. How many natives?
A. Not more than about 75 or 80 at present. Q. You are here 
representing an annexation organization? A. Yes, sir.
q. As a delegate?
A. Yes.
Q. Who were the gentlemen who came up with you representing the 
annexation organization on the island? A. H. P. Baldwin, George N, 
Wilcox, George Mundon, and J. Konoho. Q. What is the occupation of 
Mr. Baldwin? A. He is a sugar planter.
Q. Do you know anything of the capital he represents? A. He 
represents from that island a capital stock of something like 
$2,000,000. Q. Does he represent any interest on any other island? A. 
Yes he is he principal owner of several plantations on Maui. Q. Is he 
from the State of Maine?
A. I do not know. His father was one of the original missionaries. Q. 
Well, Mr. Wilcox, is he interested in sugar? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is his business?
A. He is a planter.
Q. How much capital does he represent?
A. Well, in the sugar business he is estimated at being worth 
something like $1,000,000, and his plantation business I should think 
is something like half a million. Q. Do you mean in addition to his 
sugar interest? A. No, sir; his sugar interest would amount to about 
half a million dollars. He has other interests besides. He is a principal 
shareholder in the Inter-Island Steam Navigation Company. In fact, 
he has interests all over the islands. He has a great deal of sugar 
stock outside of his own plantation. Q. You are speaking of Mr. 
Wilcox?
A. Yes.
Q. He is the principal owner of the steamship line also? A. I don't 
know that he is the principal owner. I know he owns considerable 
stock. Q. Is he the Wilcox known in connection with the phrase, 
"Wilcox Cabinet?" A. Yes. His father was one of the early 
missionaries? Q. What is the business of those two natives who came 
with you? A. George Mundon does a little business in the way of 
hauling wood, cutting wood, and supplying wood to the plantations. 
Q. What plantations?

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	705

A. Ours principally.
Q. Is he in your employ?
A. Not directly- well, I suppose he is.
Q. The other native. His business?
A. He is a minister of the Gospel.
Q. You all came in together yesterday evening. Did you represent the 
same organization? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you represent the same locality?
A. No, sir; we represent about the whole of the island. Q. Will you tell 
me the causes which led to the dethronement of the Queen? A. Well, 
poor government.
Q. Could you not be more specific? Poor government is a very loose 
phrase, and won't carry much information with it. A. Of course it was 
something that has been coming for some time, but what decided the 
question was the Queen's wishing to put a new constitution on the 
people- force a new constitution on the people. Q. What do you mean 
by the phrase, "has been coming for some time? A. Things had been 
drifting into disorder and corruptness in government matters. Q. 
What sort of disorder?
A. Mismanagement.
Q. Well, was life and property safe?
A. No, sir; well, I won't say that altogether, but things were drifting 
that way. We felt that property at least was not safe. Q. Was there a 
looking forward to a change of government on account of the 
discontent with the political condition in the islands?


A. Well, I do not think so. Of course we are not as well posted on the 
other islands, away from the capital here. Q. You were not here 
during the scenes immediately preceding and during the 
dethronement of the Queen? A. No, sir.
Q. Then, on that question you can not answer? A. No, sir.
Q. You have already said you are representing annexionists? A. Yes.
Q. What is your opinion as to the feeling in favor of the existing 
Government with a view towards annexation? A. When the Queen 
was first overthrown there were very few in favor of annexation, 
very few of the planters especially. I was one that did not see that 
we could be improved, especially in view of the contract-labor 
system which is our mainstay. Q. You mean mainstay for sugar 
interests or for the islands? A. Well for the islands, because it is the 
main industry of the islands; but as things developed, and after 
looking over the matter carefully and talking over the matter with 
other interested parties- that is, planters principally- we came to the 
conclusion that we would rather take our chances on the labor 
question than to take the chances of an independent government. We 
were in hopes that if annexation was secured that the United States 
would take our labor question into consideration and allow us some 
privileges in that way. Q. In what way?
A. In bringing in Asiatic labor or not interfering with our present 
system of labor. We feel, of course, that good government is the 
FR 94- APP II- 45

706	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS .
foundation of prosperity, and that without good government we have 
no use for labor. I think if we could have been assured of a good 
independent government we should have preferred it.
Q. What sort of an independent government? A. A thoroughly 
reliable home government. Q. Without annexation?
A. Yes. sir; because the benefits we might get are very obscure. We 
didn't feel that we could depend on that at all. Q. What would be a 
reliable government here do you think? A. I do not think it is 
possible to have good government and free suffrage. Q. Just there I 
would be glad if you would give me your views with precision. A. 
Knowing the native race as well as I do- have worked them for 
years, was raised among them and had them in responsible 
positions- I know their character and know they can cot be relied 
upon. They are educated to it. Q. They are not educated to what?
A. To manage themselves- to govern themselves. Q, You mean for 
participation in governmental affairs. A. Yes; a native can never 
conduct any business for himself. In no instance that I know of has a 
native attempted to go into business for himself and made a success 
of it- that is, any business of any extent. He has always been 
associated with some foreigner and the foreigner at the head always. 
It is very hard for them to understand business. They have not got 
the knack of acquiring, and what they do acquire they can not hold 
on to, They are very weak in this matter. Q. Well, now, when it comes 
to voting, how are they? A. very easily led, one way or the other. Up 
to within the last three or four sessions of the legislature they were 
very indifferent about it, but since then there has been a little race 
prejudice. Q. For ten or twelve years/
A. I won't go back as far as that. I will say six years. Of course it was 
anything to beat the Howle (the white man). Very often now in 
elections, especially outside of Honolulu, you ask them how they 
expect to vote, they say, "Oh, it makes no difference to us. As long as 
the plantations are running of course we can always expect 
employment, and we look to the plantations for support." Q. How long 
is it since the Australian ballot law was enacted? A. Only the last 
election.
Q. In your legislature you have nobles and representatives, Now I 
want to speak as to representatives, Were a majority of the 
representatives elected to the last legislature in sympathy with the 
reform party or against them? A. Against them.
Q. What was the effect of the Australian ballot system on the native? 
Was he more or less easily influenced under this system as compared 
with the former? A. I think that if the candidate was a Hawaiian; that 
is, if there were two candidates, a white man and a Hawaiian, he 
would, of course, vote for the Hawaiian. Q. Under the secret ballot 
system?
A. Yes, sir; that is, speaking of the majority. Q. Suppose the question 
was left to the native population to determine by ballot under the 
Australian system whether they desired to return to royalty or 
annexation, what do you think that vote would show? 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	707

A. I think it would show a return to royalty- that is at the present 
time. In talking with natives I found a great many were in favor of 
annexation, but they are afraid that they would lose their civil rights, 
that, they think they would have to forfeit that. Q. let me ask you if 
this is the situation. That when they are approached by their 
employers, desiring to be in accord with them, they declare 
themselves willing for annexation subject to an expression of fear 
that they will lose the right of suffrage? (Question repeated.)
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words you think you can influence a considerable native 
vote by reason of the relations existing between you, but for the fear 
that they would lose the right of suffrage under annexation? A. I can 
hardly answer that. Of course there is their regard for their Queen in 
the one hand. They feel that annexation is inevitable- a good many of 
them- and they would express themselves as in favor of annexation 
provided they were allowed their free suffrage. But I think under 
any circumstances if it were put to a vote and no financial interests 
involved, of they were not dependent upon others for support, they 
would vote against annexation. Q. Do you think they are in favor of 
the restoration of the Queen? A. A majority of them? No, sir. You 
cannot depend upon the Hawaiians. They say one thing to day and 
another to morrow. Q. Now, the class of men they elect to the 
legislature- are they intelligent, reliable people? A. Not always; no, 
sir.
Q. Your constitution provides that a voter for nobles shall have 
unencumbered property of the value of $3,000 or an income of 
$600? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If the nobles were elected by persons having the same 
qualifications as those who elect representatives, would that place 
the control of the nobles in the hands of the native voters? A. Yes, 
sir.
Q. You have said that they elect a majority of the representatives? A. 
Yes, sir.
Q. The same thing then would obtain as to the nobles? A. yes, sir.
Q, Then that body would likely sustain a ministry in accord with 
native ideas? A. Yes, sir, decidedly.
Q. And that would leave the property of the Kingdom and the rights 
of foreigners to the disposition of native voters? A. Yes, sir, entirely. 
Property would not be secure. Q. Property would not be secure?
A. No, sir.
Q. Please tell me why?
A. I would have to answer that in a general way- that no property 
can be secured under bad government. Q. You think a body elected in 
the way last indicated would be a corrupt body of men? A. I do.
Q. You think it would be an ignorant body of men? A. Yes, sir; as 
regards the science of government. Q. You think the business 
conditions of the islands would be disregarded in legislation? 

708	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

A. Yes, sir; I think the natives would be controlled by unscrupulous 
people. The natives are very easily influenced, one way or another. Q. 
Do you think the animosity towards the white people would 
continue? A. I have no doubt of it.
Q. Please tell me this- do you think that it is necessary to the 
preservation of order and the making and enforcement of good laws 
that the foreign element should give correction to political affairs on 
these islands? A. Yes, sir; I do. Of course, in speaking of the 
Hawaiians, I speak of the majority, There are exceptions, of course. 
There are some very good Hawaiians that I have a great deal of 
respect for, but their not being interested to any extent financially- 
having nothing to lose in that way and being dependent upon others 
for support- they are not careful, they are easily influenced. Q. Are 
they easily influenced with liquor in elections? A. Since the 
Australian ballot system was adopted, not so much so. Previous to 
that and previous to the formation of the Reform Party, it was a 
custom for the candidates outside of the polling places to have 
feasts- laaus- and the native would get a free feed and a free glass of 
gin provided he would vote for a certain representative. His ballot 
would be handed to him and he would go to the polls and put it in. 
There was a great deal of that. I think that was one of the main 
reasons for the formation of the Reform Party. Q. Were there a 
majority of them subject to this influence you have just spoken of? 
A. Yes, sir. I have seen it open and aboveboard. Q. That thing, them, 
often determined the election of a representative? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that generally the case in elections for representatives prior 
to the Australian ballot law? A. I think it was a good deal so.
Q. Well, is there anything else you want to add? A. We have been 
charged as sugar men with being at the bottom of this movement. I 
want to contradict that emphatically. Q. Was it not really a Honolulu 
movement? A. Yes, sir. Although of course we felt that something of 
the kind might happen. In talking over matters with our president, 
Colonel Spaulding, I told him I thought something might be done to 
oust the Wilcox cabinet. He said he didn't think the Queen would dare 
to do it. Q, Well, if she did oust them did you expect any trouble to 
come out of it? A. I did. Things had gone so far and we had had so 
much of it, that I felt sure something would come of it. At the same 
time I was surprised that she did do it.Q. That she did remove the 
Cabinet? A. Yes, sir; I think so, I feel so- decidedly so. Of course, we 
are at a little disadvantage, as property holders with large interests 
away from Honolulu. We feel at a disadvantage compared with the 
Honolulu people. There we are pretty much at the mercy of the 
people at large, that, the natives, and our property being scattered 
over thousands of acres, and being very easily destroyed by fire, of 
course we 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	709
feel concerned. We can not call for protection from any force- naval 
force or anything of that kind. A few natives with a match could 
destroy thousands and thousands of dollars' worth of property on a 
short time. Fire in the sugar cane is very hard to fight. A great deal 
of property would be destroyed in a short time. Therefore, of course, 
we feel justified in asking for annexation or for protection against 
civil disorder.
Q. Is there anything else you want to add? A. I want to deny again 
the charges made, that the planters are at the bottom of this 
movement. You can easily see how annexation would affect us. It 
would undoubtedly do away with our contract system of labor. Q. 
What would be the effect on you of laws prohibiting contract labor? 
A. It would require 25 per cent more labor to keep up the supply. Q. 
Suppose the United States should prohibit contracts being made by 
corporations with people in Asiatic countries, what would be the 
effect of that? A. It would raise the price of labor.
Q. What would the effect be on crop products? A. It would increase 
the cost of a ton of sugar. Q. Can you get ant European labor of any 
amount here; could you look to Europe as a source for labor? A. No, 
sir. We have tried that. It was a failure. We got some German 
families, but we had to give it up. They did not seem suitable. They 
could not stand working in the sugar cane. I have carefully read 
through the foregoing and pronounce it a correct report. 
W. BLAISEDLL.
Honolulu, April 20, 1893
_____________________________________________________________
____________ 

No. 11.
Statement of William Blaisdell.

Kealia, Kauai, Hawaiian Islands,
May 9, 1893.
DEAR SIR: I hereby take advantage of the privilege granted me by 
you to communicate by letter anything of interest in addition to my 
statement made to you a fortnight of so ago. If I remember rightly, I 
forgot to reply, in answer to a question asked me, "Whether the 
planters had introduced any other nationalities than Asiatics in this 
country as laborers," that for several years during the time we 
received 2 cents a pound for our sugar several thousands of 
Portuguese families were induced to come to the Islands from Azores 
under contract to this government, and then transferred to the 
planters. They proved to be the best and most reliable class of 
laborers brought to this country; no other class of labor has given as 
good satisfaction. But when the price took such a tumble and we 
were obliged to make sugar for $40 a ton less, we were compelled to 
look elsewhere for less expensive laborers, or go to the wall. The first 
cost of importing Portuguese was a considerable expense as the 
distance is so great between the two countries; that expense had to 
be borne by the planters. They also received higher rated of wages 
than any other class of labor in the country, and, in addition, were 
fur- 

710	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
nished free house room, fuel, medical attendance for the whole 
family. Notwithstanding their greater expense to the Planters as 
laborers than the Japanese of Chinese, they were, on the whole, a 
more desirable class of employés than any other class of labor, and I 
hope that , if we are annexed to the United States of America, our 
circumstances will be so much better, financially, that we can again 
encourage the immigration of that class of labor to this country. 
There may be some trouble in getting them here, if the contract-
labor system is abolished, for they have not the funds wherewith to 
defray the expense of bringing their families out here, let alone 
themselves. The Planters, therefore, would have to advance them 
that much, and the binding of the laborer to serve for a certain time 
is the only security the employer can obtain for the refunding the 
amount of the advance, which is deducted from his wages in monthly 
installments, and as the new settler can spare but a very small 
portion of his earnings each month, he is as a rule two years working 
out the debt.
Much has been said against the contract-labor system by people who 
do not understand it; much more can be said in its favor by those 
who do. As a rule the contract laborer is better off in every respect 
than the noncontract man. A contract man is free to do as he pleases 
when his ten hours of work are over. It is true he is compelled to 
work when physically able, and if a man claims to the contrary, he 
reports to the physician, and if, after an examination, the physician 
finds the least thing ails the laborer, he is excused from work, and if, 
on the contrary, he is sound in health, is lazy, and feigns illness for 
an excuse to get a day or two to idle or gamble, he is ordered to 
work, which order should he disregard, he is taken before a 
magistrate, an, if he fails to prove that he is physically unable to 
work, he is ordered by the court to go to work, and, should he still 
refuse, he is sent to jail, there to remain until he agrees to do as 
ordered. It is a common rule on all plantations to occasionally grant a 
leave of absence for several days to a man who has proved himself 
worthy of it. A good man is seldom, if ever, denied that privilege. The 
fact of the laborer being compelled to work when able, enables him 
to earn more wages than the noncontract men. He, therefore, always 
has money laid by for a rainy day; whereas the day laborer or 
noncontract dies not work more than 80 percent of his time, and 
spends that time, when not at work, in idleness and gambling, and in 
running from one part of the country to another. I maintain that 
where there is a large number of the lower class, as there is in this 
country, and also where the rate paid to the laborer is so far in 
excess of what it costs them to live, that some such system is 
necessary in order to discourage idleness and its consequent evils. In 
fact, it is as necessary as compulsory education is in this country. 
Every Government school has a truant officer and he is kept busy 
bringing in truants and recruits, That will explain my reason for the 
statement made you that "if the contract-labor system is abolished 
we well require 25 per cent more laborers in the country to supply 
the demand as well as it is supplied at present." Since my return 
from Honolulu I have been from one end of this district to the other 
(50 miles) to ascertain as near as possible what the sentiment is 
among the natives in regard to Annexation. The Royalist politicians 
have sent several agents down here from Honolulu to influence the 
natives against it by every means possible, A certain Capt. Ross, a 
noted character, of whom, no doubt, you have heard much, was one 
of them, The misleading statements that he has made to these 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	711
simple-minded people regarding America, its people, and form of 
government, and saying everything possible that a base-hearted 
person can say to encourage race prejudice, is enough to disgrace him 
in the eyes of every American, or anyone else that can boast of 
having an enlightened mind.
He has told them that America can not take care of her poor people, 
of which there are many thousands in every city in the Union, and 
that they are dying off by the hundreds for the want of something to 
eat. It is that class of people, he has told them, that the United states 
will send here among you, and as they have nothing, they will kill off 
you natives in order to get your lands, etc. You will be treated like 
slaves, and run over by the white people. The above is only a sample 
of what he told the natives, and although the better class do not 
place much confidence in all that he told them, yet they are 
somewhat alarmed at what he said, and do not know which way to 
turn. As they are not directly interested in any of the industries and 
enterprises of the Islands, and are only small landowners, they 
therefore feel that they can not be materially affected by bad 
government, and that it would be better for them to take their 
chances in that, rather than Annexation and its doubtful benefits. 
And, again, the exciting of race prejudice which has been intensified 
by the Royalists, has been an important factor in influencing them 
against desiring to annex their country with that of a white man, 
They are a timid and simpleminded lot of people as a rule, and are 
therefore easily influenced against anything foreign that they 
imagine may do them harm. Almost all of the better educated 
natives are officeholders, such as district judges and policemen, and 
they, for fear of losing their positions under a new form of 
government, do all they can to encourage their less fortunate 
countrymen against annexation, and this is not a difficult task when 
you understand that they have never read the Constitution of the 
United states, and all they know of America is that there is such a 
place some 2,000 miles away from the Islands, where all manner of 
crime if committed, and that there is a possible chance of such 
criminals coming to the Islands to flee from justice, consequently the 
islands will be overrun with all sorts of bad characters; this, in fact, 
has been told them by the Royalists. I have worked hard to explain 
away such delusions and stories, and am also having the Constitution 
of the United States translated into the Hawaiian language, and will 
distribute copies of same to all natives on the Island, and will have it 
explained thoroughly to them. I feel sure that this course will do 
much to dispel many points of doubt that they now adhere to. I also 
feel sanguine that, after a few years of Annexation, and they enjoy 
all the benefits and privileges thereof, few if any, will be willing to 
give it up. But to ask them to decide in favor of it under the present 
circumstances would be very similar to asking the Indians of 
America a hundred years ago whether all the white people should be 
allowed to remain in that county or not, and if they had had an idea 
that their decision would result in expelling the whites, every one of 
them would have had to emigrate from whence they came. The 
result would undoubtedly be the same in the present case here in 
the Islands if the question of Annexation were put to a popular vote, 
as the natives and dependents upon Royalty are in the majority. But 
it must be acknowledged by the whole world that the foreigners or 
white people have done all in their power to educate the Hawaiian 
race to rule and govern their own country; made all efforts 

712	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
to guide them on to prosperity and develop their resources; acted as 
their advisors and only took part of managing the affairs and 
occupying such positions themselves as the natives were incapable to 
conduct. A number of attempts have been made in the courts of the 
last fifty years by the white people to place well-educated Hawaiians 
in those positions, but for the lack of strength of character (a natural 
failing of the whole Hawaiian race) the experiments have proved 
utter failures, and the positions filled again by honest and reliable 
white men.


All position that natives were competent to fill have been given 
them; even then they would have disgraced themselves were they 
not held in check by the white men at the head of the several 
departments in which they were employed. But a short time ago, not 
over a month, it was proved beyond a doubt that the deputy sheriff 
of this district and subordinates (all Hawaiians) were paid a regular 
salary by keepers of Chinese dens to wink at their operations, and to 
permit the carrying on of same, free from molestation, One of the 
gambling dens was in the house owned by the deputy sheriff and 
rented to Chinese for that express purpose by him. A proprietor of 
one of the dens refused to pay the sum of money won by one of his 
countrymen at one of their games the cheated party threatened to 
expose the place if he did not get the money due him, but the threat 
did not alarm the offender, inasmuch as he thought the matter would 
be reported to the deputy sheriff, the landlord, with whom he felt 
secure. But the injured party knew of the local police being bribed 
and reported the whole matter to Mr. Wilcox, the sheriff of the 
Island. He sent a constable from another district to make a haul on 
the den, They succeeded in doing so and exposed the whole matter. 
The foregoing is an illustration of the character of a native, even 
when placed in a responsible position. Is it a matter of wonderment 
that the white people, and especially those who have so much at 
stake in this country, and whose patience has been so sorely tried 
and confidence abused, have at last taken matters into their own 
hands and ask for protection from those whom we are sure can give 
it. Any independent form of government will not stand very long 
under existing circumstances; we can not see any way out of the 
predicament then annexation with the United States, These who have 
extensive investments in this country can not depend upon the 
future security against corrupt legislation until the United States has 
the management of public affairs and the handling of the revenues of 
the Islands; and I claim that we have the right and are justified to 
ask the United States to protect us, and to accept the trust, for 
patience has ceases to be a virtue. As an example to illustrate how 
far the native will allow his feelings to be influenced by race 
prejudice, I will mention a circumstance that occurred here in this 
district, and, as I am familiar with every detail connected therewith, 
I have no hesitancy in giving it ti you as a fact. During the last 
election for representatives for election in this district two 
candidates were in the field, one a Hawaiian-born white man, Mr., A. 
A. S. Wilcox, brother to G. N. Wilcox, of the "Wilcox cabinet," and in 
opposition a native by the name of Kahilina. A. S. Wilcox was 
nominated by the foreigners and those natives of the better class. 
Kahilina was asked to run by the Queen. A. S. Wilcox is a man with an 
irreproachable character and his conduct as a man throughout his life 
is an honor to human nature. He 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	713
was born and raised in this district, where he has always lived, and 
has been a sugar-planter for the past twenty-five years, employing 
natives in preference to any other class of labor, and his conduct 
toward them has won their love and respect. He has never let an 
opportunity go by to do the native a favor.
A few years ago a number of natives in the neighborhood of his 
home, Hanalei, desirous of replacing their grass huts with wooden 
horses, and not having funds to carry their plans into effect, went to 
Mr. Wilcox for aid, as has always been their custom in such cases. He 
gave them the necessary funds and as security for the payment of 
same they gave him mortgages on all their lands and other property. 
They built their houses and, native-like, the time for the redeeming 
of their mortgages came around and found them unprepared to do 
so. Mr. Wilcox allowed the matter to go on for years and finally, 
tiring of carrying it along on his books, he canceled all the mortgages, 
on which he had never received a cent of interest let alone the 
principal. Likewise in many other instances, too numerous to 
mention, he has befriended the native and does so to this day. The 
other candidate, Kahilina, is a full-blooded Hawaiian, well educated. 
For a while he held a position as district judge in Hanalei, Kauai. But 
that position was taken from him before many months had elapsed, 
as it was proved that he accepted bribes and appropriated court 
funds for personal use and lived in open adultery. This is the 
character of the man that the Queen and her party put up as their 
representative to run against Mr. Wilcox. I may here state that Mr. 
Wilcox refused the nomination, but when he learned that Kahilina 
was to run for election, and rather than to have such a man go to the 
Legislature to represent a district where the foreigners had invested 
so many millions and had so much at stake, he consented to contest 
the election against Kahilina. The first thing Kahilina did when he 
found that Mr. Wilcox was in the field against him was to run down 
the white man, and did all in his power to excite race prejudice, as he 
could find nothing in the character or past life of Mr. Wilcox with 
which to weaken his chances with the natives. Prior to the day of 
election Kahilina went into the precinct where Wilcox was born, and 
among the natives he had befriended, as mentioned above, knowing 
that there Wilcox was a favorite, and there he told the natives not to 
vote for a white man. "Wilcox may be all right, and a good man 
himself, but he represented the white people, and they would treat 
the natives as the white people treated the Indians in America; they 
were overrunning the country and would soon gobble up all their 
land." This had the desired effect. When the election was over and 
the count made of the votes cast in each precinct of the district it was 
found that very few natives voted for Mr. Wilcox, and none of those 
whom he had befriended. Mr. Wilcox was elected, but by only the 
foreigners, Americans, English, Germans, and Portuguese. When the 
natives were upbraided for voting against Mr. Wilcox, after all his 
kindness toward them, they acknowledged their indebtedness to him 
for all past favors, but they did it "because he was a haole (white 
man) and represented the white people." Only in political matters is 
that sentiment expressed; outside of that the natives acknowledge 
their dependence upon the foreigner, and will go to them first to ask 
a favor in preference to one of their own nationality. There is not a 
foreigner on this Island, and I will go as far to state on any of the 
Islands, but what feels that the native is a special charge and do all 
in their power to administer to their comfort 

714	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
and welfare. A visit through the Islands would convince you of that 
fact at every step. Leave the race to themselves and they would drift 
right back to where they were fifty years ago. They would do so now 
were it not for the fact that the foreign element is continually 
tugging at the other end. They have no conception of the great 
watchword of the enlightened world, "progress;" they have no 
objection, however, to be carried along with it so long as they are 
pampered like a lot of children.
To a person who thoroughly understands the character of a Kanaka it 
is no surprise that matters have taken the turn that they have in the 
past two months. According to all rules of progression, it had to come 
some time, and now that it has arrived, we who have the welfare of 
the country at heart, and for the good of all concerned, feel that there 
is no hope for domestic tranquillity in the future unless the United 
States will accede to the prayers of the respectable people of this 
country. Left to ourselves domestic strife is inevitable, and will ruin 
the whole country in a very short time. This must not be permitted. 
It is the unquestionable duty of the United States to ward off that 
danger and consequent destruction of homes and interests of 
thousands of her citizens, and if she should not do it she would be 
shrinking from a duty that she would always regret. She sill have to 
so it sometime and probably not at a time so favorable to all 
concerned. "A stitch in time will save nine." This country's resources 
can be increased tenfold if the large tracts of Government and crown 
land were taken out of the hands of large leaseholders and divided 
up among enterprising citizens as homesteads. There are thousands 
of acres of the richest land to be found on the face of the globe in the 
hands of a few, and only a small portion of which is under 
cultivation, whereas if settled upon by enterprising people with 
small means, they can be made to produce millions of dollars 
annually, as sugar and rice are the only products that are admitted 
into the United States free of duty. Those industries alone have 
received attention, consequently on an extensive sugar estate there 
are thousands of acres of land that could be made to produce almost 
anything else under the sun, but are given up to cattle grazing, 
because they are not altogether suitable for either cane or rice. Upon 
such lands thousands of families could build beautiful homes live in a 
climate second to none on the face of this globe, where flowers bloom 
and all kinds of vegetables grow all the year round. This will surely 
come about with good government and an available marker for all 
products of the Islands. I would give much if you could visit this, the 
garden Island of the group; you would then learn from your own 
observations the truth of the above statements. You could see from 
your carriages some of the grandest scenery to be found on the 
Islands- a beautiful country covered with verdure from the tops of 
the mountains to the water's edge, and an abundance of water 
everywhere, and yet there are miles and miles of this beautiful 
country unsettled, with the exception of the rich valley bottoms. I 
shall regret very much if you leave this country without honoring us 
with a visit; you could do it and be absent from Honolulu only three 
or four days. I therefore on the part of all the people on Kauai 
cordially invite yourself and party to pay us a visit. Everything 
possible in a quiet way will be done for your comfort, etc. I fear that 
I have already impressed too much upon you patience and valuable 
time, and will therefore close, trusting that you will do all in you 
power to gain 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	715
for us the protection that we feel so much the need of and is our only 
hope for future prosperity.
I have the honor to be, your obedient servant, 
W. BLAISDELL.
Col. James H. Blount,
United States Commissioner, Honolulu.

_____________________________________________________________
_________ 

No. 12.

Interview with Crister Bolte, of Honolulu, May 5, 1893.

Mr. Blount. What is your occupation, Mr. Bolte? Mr. Bolte. I am a 
merchant in the corporation of Grinbaum & Co. Q. Are you connected 
with the Planters' Labor and Supply Association? A. I am.
Q. Are you a stockholder in sugar plantations? A. I am.
Q. Is the Planters' Labor and Supply Association made up of persons 
interested in planting, either directly or by owning stock? A. Yes; it is 
made up of persons owning stock in plantations and plantations 
themselves. There is hardly any person of property in this country 
who is not an owner of some sugar stocks. Q. Are the members of this 
Planters' Labor and Supply Company all owners of sugar stocks? A. I 
believe so.
Q. Were you here on the 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th of January, 
1893? A. Yes.
Q. Please tell me what you know about the occurrences during that 
time? A. previous to the 14th of January we had a cabinet consisting 
of Wilcox, P. C. Jones, Cecil Brown, and Mark Robinson. These were all 
people of intelligence, integrity, and property. They commanded the 
confidence of the whole community. Various attempts had been 
made by the legislature to get rid of them. Finally, on the 13th of 
January, they did oust them. The cabinet, consisting of Sam Parker, 
Billy Cornwell, John Colburn, and Peterson, was appointed by the 
Queen, and on the 14th of January the legislature was prorogued. 
These people did not command the confidence of the business 
community. Sam Parker has squandered away all his money. He is 
considered a big boy; no stability in him. Billy Cornwell is of the same 
character also; has no property. John Colburn is a man of property, 
but of very doubtful character- not considered honest and 
straightforward. Peterson is an able lawyer. He has had the best of 
chances here to be respectable man, but he seems naturally inclined 
towards associating with a class of people who have no respectability 
to them. Q. What do you mean by the word "respectability?" A. A 
man who leads a pure family life, pays his bills, keeps his word, and 
various other ways. q. What is his business?
A. He is a lawyer. He goes off on carousals. Does not go home at night. 
There is trouble in his family. Now to proceed: The legislature was 
prorogued on the 14th at 12 o'clock, and before that time news 

716	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
came down town that the Queen was going to proclaim a new 
constitution and abrogate the old one. The business men down town 
came together and talked matters over.
Q. At what place?
A. W. O. Smith's office. They came to the conclusion that if the Queen 
can alter the constitution to suit herself she might as well alter any 
other law to suit herself. Anyway through altering the constitution 
alone she would get perfect control of the affairs or the country, 
because, in this constitution it says- as Minister Colburn told us at 
this meeting - that she intended to appoint the nobles, which is one-
half of the legislative body. We decided to let things go on for a while 
to see how it would end up. At 4 o'clock we had another meeting, 
which was largely attended. Q. At the same place?
A. At the same place. It was them stated by Minister Colburn and 
Minister Peterson that she had not proclaimed a new constitution; 
had told the people to go home, abide their time, be of good cheer, 
and she would give them a new constitution anyhow. At the first 
meeting Paul Neumann was present and said the Queen was going to 
proclaim a new constitution. At this last meeting it was decided that 
the people who were there could not be satisfied with the Queen just 
withdrawing from this as if nothing had happened, and they came to 
the conclusion that the people must have guarantees for the future, 
and appointed a committee of thirteen people. of which I was a 
member, to devise ways and means by which such guarantees could 
be gotten. This committee met several times at various places, and 
decided that the only perfect safeguard against future occurrences of 
this kind would lie in annexation to the United States, or in a 
protectorate, or in anything of that kind, but that we could not go on 
with the form of government as it was them. They decided to call a 
mass meeting of citizens on Monday afternoon at 2 o'clock, and see 
what people there would say about it, At this meeting were various 
speakers, some of the committee of thirteen and also others. The 
people were asked by the speakers if they were satisfied with the 
promises the Queen had made and let the matter drop- let 
everything go on as it was before, or if they wanted a change and 
guarantees for the future. They desired guarantees for the future, 
and appointed the committee of thirteen- or rather continued the 
committee- to take such further steps as might be necessary. Q. Let 
me ask you what you meant and what people meant by saying they 
wanted guarantees? A. I meant a change of government. What the 
people meant I can not say, but I am fully convinced that they meant 
the same as it has been very often spoken of during the last few 
years. Q. What has been spoken of so often?
A. Annexation to the United states has been advocated publicly in 
the papers- I meant change of government. Q. Why didn't you use 
language that conveyed distinctly the idea- dethronement of the 
Queen and annexation to the United states? A. The Hawaiian 
Government, as it was them, was still in existence, and in stating 
there publicly we wanted to dethrone the Queen and have a 
government of our own with an intention of being annexed to the 
United states, might be going a little too far. Q. You mean making you 
liable to interference on the part of the local authorities? A. Yes.

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	717

Q. And that you were trying to avoid at that time? A. Yes, especially 
for this reason. We did not know whether the action of the 
committee would be endorsed by this large majority of the people at 
the mass meeting. We thought it would. Q. Was there any expression 
in that meeting asking for guarantees for the future in a shape of a 
vote? A, Yes; the resolution was all prepared/ Q. It was a resolution 
endorsing the report of the Committee of Safety? A. Yes. The meeting 
dispersed, and the committee of safety went back to W. O. Smith's 
office to talk matters over. Q. What time in the day was that?
A. About half past 3. After talking matters over and seeing that the 
Queen had concentrated her forces- meaning thereby that the 
soldiers were all in the barracks- the palace barricaded with sand 
and the station house barricaded- Q. How about the Government 
house?
A. I didn't notice anything going on there. The station house has 
always been considered the stronghold of the Government. It looked 
as if there might be trouble. So we came to the conclusion to ask Mr. 
Stevens if he would protect the life and property of the citizens by 
sending some soldiers ashore, stating that we considered the 
situation very grave- even dangerous. After a short while Mr. 
Stevens sent his answer that he would. Q. Sent it to the meeting?
A. Yes; sent it to the meeting, and then at 5 o'clock the soldiers came 
ashore. They were quartered at various places. That same evening, 
Monday, January 16, the committee of safety had another meeting. Q. 
Where?
A. At Mr. Waterhouses's horse. They called in, besides the Committee 
of safety, a few other gentlemen. Q. Who were they?
A. Mr. Young, Fred Wundenburg, Cecil Brown, and John H. Soper. We 
talked matters over to see what would be best to do, and came to the 
conclusion we would form a Provisional Government and ask Mr. 
Dole if he would be the President, and that this Provisional 
Government should try to get annexation with the United States, 
because so far as we could make out at that time that was the only 
solid basis on which we could safely rely. Mr. Dole was not at the 
meeting. I had my horse with me. I was detailed to speak to Mr. Dole. 
I arrived at his house about half past 8, I think. T told him what 
decision we had come to, and asked him if he would accept such an 
office. He was utterly surprised at it. He had had nothing to do with 
the affair before, only had been at second meeting at W. O. Smith's. 
He said he could not then quite see that the view we had was quite 
correct, but still he had not given the matter much consideration. 
After a lengthy discussion I induced him to go along to the meeting, 
so that he could hear what they had to say. After everything at the 
meeting had been thoroughly explained to him and discussed with 
him he said that he felt it was his duty, as wall as the duty of any 
other citizen of these islands, to do all they could to get pure and 
stable government, but he was not quite convinced then that it was 
necessary to take so radical a step as to overthrow the old 
Government. Later on, at about 12 o'clock that night, he had come to 
the conclusion we could not go on the way we were, but whether he 
would 

718	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
become President or not he would not say until 10 o'clock the next 
morning.
The next morning at 10 o'clock we met at W. O. Smith's office, and he 
said he had resigned his position as judge and would do what he was 
requested to do by us. We then proceeded to form the Government. 
It took us up to about 12 o'clock. We made all the necessary 
arrangements and adjourned to meet again at half-past 1. At half-
past 1 we talked all matters over again for a little white and went to 
the government house and take possession of it. At the Government 
house there was nobody, no armed men, supporters of the Queen, 
except Charles McCarty, who was doing some clerical work for the 
lately adjourned legislature. He said he was waiting for somebody to 
come to help him defend the Government house. Q. To you?
A. No.
Q. You don't know that he said it?
A. Only from friends who told me.
Q. Who did he tell?
A. I think Andrew Brown.
Q. What does he do?
A. He is a coppersmith. He worked in the Honolulu Iron Works. 
Lately became superintendent of the water works. At 2 o'clock when 
we arrived at the Government house there came our supporters- 
brought their rifles and pistols with them. Q. Do you mean at the 
same time. or do you mean that they got there a little before of a 
little after you? A. There was preconcerted action. We told them we 
would go to the Government house at 2 o'clock. Q Had you 
commenced to read the proclamation before your troops got on the 
ground? A. I do not recollect distinctly. They were there before we 
finished reading the proclamation. The chief clerks at the different 
departments were called in to confer with the newly-appointed 
ministers, among them Mr. Hassenger and Mr. Hastings. They were 
told to go right on with their work. Letters were written at once to 
the representatives of foreign countries informing them that the 
Provisional Government was now the Government of the Hawaiian 
islands. After a short time they answered, recognizing this 
Government.


Q. That same day?
A. Mostly the same day. When we arrived at the Government house 
the ministers were not there. Mr. Hassenger, chief clerk of the 
interior department, said he believed they had gone over to the 
palace. He telephoned for them, but he got no answer, or they 
answered they were not there. Later on in the afternoon- I should 
think about 4 o'clock- Deputy Marshall Mherton came to the 
Government house to ask some question of Mr. Dole. I forget now 
what the question was. He then said, incidentally, that the ministers 
were at the station house, and he was handed a copy of the 
proclamation to give it to the old ministers. They had not been 
officially informed of anything, because we could not find them. Also 
a verbal invitation was sent to them to come over to the Government 
house to talk. Sam Parker came over to the Government house. He 
said in effect this: "You have possession now. We can not do 
anything." He was asked to get his colleagues. He said they did not 
like to come, but would some of us come to the station house and talk 
there? Q. Had you then been recognized by the United States 
minister? 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	719

A. No. We had not been recognized by anybody at that time. Sam 
Damon and I were appointed and we went there to talk with then. q. 
To try to induce them to give up?
A. Yes.
Q. What reason did you give them?
A. That we had possession of the Government house now and that it 
would be useless shedding of blood if we hot into a fight over this 
thing. Q. Did you give any other reason?
A. No; only just stuck to facts.
Q. Any mention of United States troops on your part or the part of 
anybody during that conversation? A. No; I did not say anything 
about it.
Q. Did anybody?
A . I can not say whether Sam Damon said anything. Q, Did they say 
anything to anybody in your presence? A. No.
Q. How did they answer you? Did you have no discussion? A. Not 
there. We invited them to come to the Government house and talk 
with Mr. Dole. Q. Did they make any agreement with you. or did they 
postpone it and go to the Government house? A. Peterson said if we 
would guarantee him his liberty- Q. Safe-conduct?
A. Yes. We promised him that and all went together to the 
Government house. Q. What time of day was this?
A. About 5 o'clock.
Q. What time is it dark at that season of the year? A. Between 6 and 
6:30. At the station house was Ned Macfarlane. He said to me that he 
thought the old government would give up or the Queen would give 
up if we would accept a protest of her. He said, "I know such a 
protest does not amount to anything, but still she wants it and so you 
had better accept it." I told him that so far as I was concerned in the 
matter they could put all the protests they wanted. Q. Was this 
conversation at the barracks or Government house? A. At the station 
house. The four ministers, Sam Damon, and I took two hacks and 
went to the Government house. All said about the same thing, that 
they would have to give up, but they wanted to enter a protest. Then 
Sam Damon went with the ministers to the Queen. He reported after 
he came back that the f Queen had said in substance the same thing. 
Q. What time was it when they came back? A. Fully 6 o'clock.
Q. About quarter of an hour before sunset? A. Yes. Very soon after 
Billy Cornwell came over bringing the protest that you know of. Mr. 
Dole acknowledged the receipt of the protest on the back of it. stating 
the hour, and he then said the Queen would send orders to the 
station house that her people should vacate the premised. very soon 
after that Captain Zeigler with a number of our men went to the 
station house and took possession, and the others went away leaving 
their arms. Q. Who was in command of the station house? A. Charles 
B, Wilson, marshal.

720	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

Q. What do you mean by very soon after? What time was the station 
house given up? A. About five minutes after Billy Cornwell delivered 
the protest. Q. How do you know that? Were you at the station 
house? A. No.
Q. You did not know then what time it was given up? A. We heard 
immediately. They telephoned from there. Q. How long after?
A. I can not say. It was all done in a short time. I want home and got 
dinner. I was home about 7 o'clock. Q. You said that same day Mr. 
Stevens and all the foreign governments recognized you Government. 
At what time in the day did they recognize you? A. First came Mr. 
Woodhouse and Mr. Fuji. Q. What time was that?
A. Four o'clock.
Q. What time in the day did Mr. Stevens send his recognition? A. I 
can not say.
Q. Won't you try to approximate?
A. I can not.
Q. Had the sun set or not?
A. If Mr. Pringle brought the letter then the sun had set, and I think 
he was the one to bring the letter. Q. When did you learn of the 
recognition? How long before you want home? A. Just before I went 
home. That was what I was waiting for. Q. How did you learn that?
A. By letter being read aloud.
Q. Who had the letter?
A. Mr. Dole.
Q. Do you know how long he had that letter? A. He did not have it 
until- I think- Mr. Pringle brought it in. Q Are you sure about that?
A. I am not positive about that.
Q. You do not know that Pringle brought that letter at all? A. No; but 
I am under that impression. I believe he delivered the letter, but I 
did not see him hand it over. Q. Now will you say how long before 
you went home before you heard of that letter? A. I was waiting for 
that letter to go home. Q. You do not know who brought the letter? A. 
I think Mr. Pringle.
Q. You do not know but what that letter was there half an hour 
before that ? A. I did not see the letter unless it was Pringle who 
brought it. Q. You do not know but what that recognition was 
delivered to Mr. Dole sometime before you knew of it? A. No; but I 
have reason to believe not, because some way or other I know that 
they said we can not be recognized as fully in possession of the 
Government until we had the station house and barracks in our 
possession. We were among ourselves wondering why Mr. Stevens 
did not send his recognition. This was what my friends said. Q. What 
friends? Mr. Dole didn't say that -Mr. W. O. Smith didn't? A. He may; 
I didn't know who.
Q. Did Mr. Thurston tell you anything of that sort? 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	721

A. It is impossible to tell you what individuals said. There were so 
many there; it was not like a regular well conducted quiet meeting. Q. 
How many attempts were made to oust the Wilcox cabinet before it 
was voted out? A. Only one definite attempt.
Q. You were speaking of the character of members of the last cabinet 
of Liliuokalani. What do you say as to Mr. Parker's character for 
truth and veracity? A. I do not know. I have never had dealings with 
him. Q. What is his reputation?
A. I do not know. Nobody expects very much out of him. They look 
upon him as an overgrown boy. Q. What do you say as Mr. Peterson's 
reputation for truthfulness? A. I would say myself that I do not 
believe he is a truthful man. Q. What is his general reputation in that 
way? A. That question I do not like to answer. I would rather state 
from personal knowledge. Q. What about Mr. Colburn?
What is his reputation for truth?
A. His truthfulness and honesty is very poor, I know. Q. What is 
Cornwell's reputation for truth and veracity? A. The same as Sam 
Parker's. He is considered a boy. With regard to truthfulness I can 
not say. W. How many persons were present in Mr. Smith's office at 
Saturday's first meeting? A. Perhaps thirty.
Q. How many at the second meeting?
A. More that one hundred. People standing out in the street. Could 
not get in there. Q. You talked of annexation to the United States in 
there, did you or did you not, on Saturday? A. Yes.
Q. Why did you think of annexation to the United States; was there a 
disposition of that sort in the country? A. Yes; it has been discussed 
openly in newspapers over the signature or name of various people, 
among them, Hartwell, Sereno Bishop, and others. Q. Was that the 
general disposition amongst the whites in this country? A. It is.
Q. Was it at that time ?
A. It was.
Q. So you felt sure of that on that day- Saturday? A. We knew that 
was the feeling of all who were at the two meetings on Saturday, as 
well as the large meeting in the skating rink. Q. Before that, was it 
the general inclination of the whites in the Hawaiian Islands? A. Yes; 
I should consider it so.
Q. You had a meeting on Monday about 3 o'clock of the committee of 
safety, after the mass meeting? A. Yes; about half-past three.
Q. You were present?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time how many arms did you gave? A. They were not 
collected, but they were all over town. I had seen some of my friends 
on Saturday, and at one house they told me that they had between 
50 and 60 men armed. 
FR 94 -APP II- 46

722	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

Q. Of course you made some estimate of your arms. How many men 
do you think you had and how many guns do you think you had? A, 
I can say what I thought myself. My own opinion was that we could 
have three or four hundred easily. Q. You appointed a committee to 
wait on Mr. Stevens and ask that troops be brought on shore? A, Yes.
Q. Who carried that communication to Mr. Stevens? A. I am not sure, 
I think Thurston and Waterhouse. I am not sure. It may have been 
somebody entirely different. Q. Did you see Mr. Stevens that day?
A. No.
Q. Who reported Mr. Stevens' reply about troops? A. The same 
committee.
Q. What did they say?
A. They said that Mr. Stevens had heard their request and conversed 
with them about matters, and he considered that the situation was 
sufficiently dangerous to send troops ashore. Q. Was he informed of 
the purposed of the mass meeting? A. He did know about it. 
Everybody in town knew. Q. And knew of the purposes of the 
movement? A. I can not say.
Q. You say everybody in town knew?
A. That we desired annexation had not been said by us at the mass 
meeting. We said we wanted stable government. The committee was 
to devise ways and means to get stable government. Q. Was it known 
that one of the methods of getting it was to get rid of the Queen? Was 
that the impression of the meeting?
A. Yes.
Q. That meeting was composed of a large class of whites, and it is a 
fair inference that the white people here knew what it meant? A. 
Yes; I think so.
Q. The meeting that called troops- they determined then and there to 
dethrone the Queen- the meeting after the mass meeting? A. After 
the mass meeting we said we have to decide what to do about this 
and the first thing we have to do as to get things into safety, and it 
was only in the evening on Monday, the 16th of January, at Henry 
Waterhouse's house, that we definitely made up our minds which 
course to pursue. Q. What course?
A. The course we have pursued- dethroning the Queen and forming 
the Provisional Government. Q. Your committee that met after the 
mass meeting were all in favor individually of dethroning the Queen? 
A. Yes, individually.
Q. Why did not you determine to do it then instead of postponing it 
until night? A. Because we wanted to go home to get our dinner and 
come back after dinner. Q. Then, the night meeting was a 
continuation of the discussion which began after the mass meeting, 
and concluded with the determination to dethrone the Queen and 
establish the Provisional Government? A. The might meeting was an 
adjourned meeting of the 3 o'clock meeting. Q. What did you do at 
the 3 o'clock meeting? A. We said we are a committee of safety. We 
must get things safe 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	723
first. We will appoint a committee to wait upon Mr. Stevens and ask 
him to send soldiers ashore.
Q. And having done that you adjourned?
A. We waited until the committee came back. The committee said Mr. 
Stevens was willing- the soldiers would come ashore at 5 o'clock. 
Then we adjourned to meet in the evening. Q. Was there any 
communication between any of the gentlemen who met at Mr. 
Waterhouse's house that night and Mr. Stevens? A. None to my 
knowledge.
Q. no committee went to see him?
A. No.
Q. Why did you want the troops to come on shore/ What was the idea 
of the committee?
A. The idea of the committee was this: The natives were armed- at 
least the soldiers and friends of the Queen were all armed- that 
evening. We didn't have any armed forces in readiness. Each 
individual had his own arms, but we had no organized forces; so in 
case of a row we would not be able to resist anything. Q. Suppose 
they had made an attack on the committee of safety, what would you 
have done? A. We could not have done anything. They would simply 
have caught us. We had our men out watching. We were afraid of an 
attack. Q. By the government troops?
A. No, by the natives, because there were some among the natives 
who had been preaching for them to set houses on fire. Q. You 
wanted troops to keep them from setting houses on fire? A. yes; as 
soon as the natives in this country know that there is a strong force 
anywhere which they can not subdue or will show real fight it is 
then their character to be very quiet and keep still. Q. if the troops 
had not been landed you would not have been safe/ A. We would not 
have considered ourselves safe. Q. If you had not gotten a favorable 
answer from Mr. Stevens about the landing of the troops, what would 
you have dine then? A. That is impossible to answer, because we had 
not made any plans. Q. You were not willing to do any thing until you 
got the answer. A. That is a question I can not give an answer to. We 
did not decide about it. Q. You said you met to do one thing- to ask 
for troops and to stay there until you got Mr. Steven's answer, and 
then you adjourned. Is that correct. A. Yes.
Q. Having gotten that answer and the troops on shore you assembled 
at night, and at that night session you determined to dethrone the 
Queen and establish the Provisional Government? A. Yes.
Q. You never took up that subject until you got the troops on shore? 
A. At previous meetings. Saturday afternoon we were appointed. 
Sunday we had a meeting. At this meeting we talked over matters. 
The general feeling was that annexation to the United States would 
be the best solution of the whole question, and this, of course, would 
necessitate the overthrow of the Queen's Government. Q. That was 
known at Saturday's meeting and at Sunday's meeting? A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any meeting before the mass meeting on Monday? A. 
We had another meeting on Monday morning. 

724	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

Q. And still the same feeling?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there anything said in this meeting with reference to the use 
of troops? A. No; although I can not state so positively. Q. Was 
anything said on Sunday about the use of troops? A. Only that we 
expressed the wish that we could get the troops to make things safe. 
Q. Then on Monday before the meeting. was there anything 
mentioned about the troops? A. It was still said if we could get 
annexation to the United states and have United Stated troops on 
shore there would be no trouble. q. You thought if you got troops on 
shore everything would be quiet? A. Yes.
Q. Did you think it at the mass meeting? A. Yes; still thought the same 
thing.
Q. And you thought at night when you assembled and determined on 
dethroning the Queen that you would have no trouble, the troops 
being on shore? A. Exactly so.
Q. You thought the presence of United States troops- an organized 
armed body of men- would prevent any hostile movement on the 
part of the government forces? A. Not of the forces but of an excited 
mob. Q. You went up to the government building- the troops were 
nearby. Did you still feel that the presence of those troops would 
likely restrain hostilities? A. No; I can hardly say that. I expected 
that there would be somebody in the Government building- that 
there might be some formalities. Q. What sort of formalities?
A. The same formalities as we have had before at the 1887 
revolution. They trotted out with their guns and talked. Q. You 
expected there would be a talk and they would surrender? A. Yes.
Q. The opinion you have expressed about the presence of troops- was 
that the general opinion in the meeting of the committee of safety? 
A. The committee of safety thought that as soon as the United States 
troops were on shore the property of everybody would be safe- no 
house-firing; no plunder. Q. When the troops came on shore what did 
you expect of them in the event of a conflict between the Provisional 
Government forces and the Queen's Government? A. We did not 
expect them to do anything. Q. Just to stand and see the fight?
A. I do not know. My opinion is that they came on shore to protect 
life and property. Their presence would avoid any attack upon 
property or life. Q. How would they accomplish it? You are proposing 
to depose the Queen; she has armed forces. Suppose those forces had 
gotten into battle. What did you expect the United States troops to do 
in the way of protection of person and property during the battle? A. 
This is a peaceable country. We only scare on another. No blood 
shedding happens here. This is the third revolution since I am here. 
At the first revolution not a shot was fired. At the second 

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.	725
there were two or three young native men who had had a military 
training in Europe. They fired a few guns that they had. There were 
seven or eight native people killed- wounded and killed. As soon as 
these people had been wounded and killed the rest of the natives ran 
away. Hid away in the house in the palace yard- the bungalow it is 
called. During the whole afternoon was kept up a fusillade from both 
sides. Nobody was hurt. In this instance I personally expected there 
would be something similar to either the first of second revolution.
Q. What were the deliberations of the committee of safety in that 
meeting? A. No further than this: We must get the soldiers on shore. 
Their very presence on shore without doing the least thing will make 
life and property sage. We did not expect any resistance, because we 
had as many men as they, or more. But their being there, there 
would not be any trouble at all. But even without them we did not 
expect any trouble. Q. Then what did you determine to try to get 
them there before you determined to dethrone the Queen? A. 
Because we wanted to protect property. Q. What need had you of the 
protection of property if you did not expect the people to fight? 
Suppose the troops had not been on shore, what danger was there to 
property? You just expected to march up and take the Government 
building without fighting? A. Yes; but we wanted to have the troops. 
Q. And you determined to ascertain whether you could get the troops 
before you went further. Is not that true? A. Yes; if we could not get 
them we must make out own arrangements. Q. Do you mean to say 
that if Mr. Stevens had said you should not have the troops you had 
determined to go on anyway? A. We didn't come as far as that, we 
were waiting for Mr. Stevens's answer before we decided anything 
further. Q. If you did not think the natives would fight, whether the 
troops were on shore or off shore, why did you need the United 
states troops to prevent the burning of houses and other riotous 
acts? A. We wanted them to stay over night, because things of that 
nature are generally done at night. Q. Was it your idea that those 
troops were just to protect you that night? A. No; it was our idea to 
have them on shore and keep them on shore as long as possible, until 
everything was quiet again. Q. Now let me ask you, did the 
committee or mot, in their deliberations, consider the presence of 
those troops on shore as important to your success in the effort to 
dethrone the Queen and set up a new government? A. When we 
asked for them we had not made up our minds to dethrone the 
Queen. We had not made up our minds to anything definite. A change 
of government was to come, but we had not decided as to what 
means should be taken. Q. They had to be quartered somewhere. You 
had to have a large house. What did you do? A. Arion Hall was 
vacant. It was the handiest place and we chose it. Q. Did you all think 
that was the best place? A. Yes.
Q. To whom does it belong?

726	HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

A, Arion Hall belongs to Mr. Waller.
Q. And in the meeting after the mass meeting you concluded that was 
the best place to put them? A. Yes.
Q. Did you all think that the natives and the Queen and her followers 
would think that those troops were in sympathy with your 
movement? A. I do not know what was in their minds. Q. You said 
the meeting of the committee of safety in the afternoon of Monday 
was assembled to do its first work, to wit, to ask for troops. Q, Yes.
Q, Was it not the idea in the minds of you gentlemen at that time to 
do away with the royal government? A. Why certainly. It has been in 
our minds for many years. q. Did it show itself in your discussions? 
A. At the very first meeting at W. I. Smith's office they talked about 
such things. Q. I invite your attention to the meeting of the 
committee of safety at half past 3 o'clock on Monday afternoon. In 
the interchange of views that took place there was there an 
expression in favor of the landing of the troops, and of taking up in 
the night session the question of dethroning the Queen? A. What is 
our first duty? It is to make things safe. For that purpose we must 
ask Mr. Stevens to let us have his soldiers. The committee came back 
and said the soldiers would be on shore at 5 o'clock. Q. Was not 
anything said in that meeting about taking steps towards dethroning 
the Queen at the night session? A. Not by me or to me, nothing 
definitely said, but it